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Re: [Healeys] Ballast resistor wiring question

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Ballast resistor wiring question
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 09:12:55 -0800
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
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The Moss catalog states 'You will need one [resistor] for each side of 
the car,' so I don't think it matters where you put them, as long as 
they are in parallel in the circuit.  50W resistors are pretty large, so 
I wouldn't want them in the engine bay; in the boot near the lights 
would be my preference.

Resistor ratings are typically given in the load the resistor can 
withstand without letting the smoke out, not how much power it will 
pull--since voltage of the circuit the resistor is to be installed in 
often isn't known--but Moss isn't specific about this.  The turn signal 
circuits are separate--although Moss implies they can somehow bleed 
through--so the power draw isn't additive*.  The Moss catalog mentions 
the 'application data in the schematic section of this catalog' but I'll 
be damned if I can find said section and the search function on the 
website yields no useful results; anybody know the page# in the current 
catalog?

The catalog is confusing as it states you'll need an electronic flasher 
if you install LEDs, then gives the option to install load resistors; 
presumably, if you don't want to replace your old-school flasher.

Bob

* theoretically, since the flasher operates both sides of the signals 
you could put a single resistor on the 'signal' terminal of the flasher 
(IIRC, the flashers have GND, power and 'signal' terminals).


On 12/26/2019 7:05 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
> After due consideration I've come to realize that there is a problem 
> with the planed resistor installation.
> The original Lucas "thermal " type flasher unit is rated at 42 watts.
> The resistors that are shown on the Moss web site are 50 watt.
> If you were to install such a resistor, to simulate the load, on each 
> turn signal bulb the load through the flasher unit, when the signals 
> were selected, would be 100 watts PLUS whatever the LED lamps drew. 
> This would result in 8.3 amps flowing through the flasher unit  ... 
> probably enough to burn it out!!
> I would think that a far better solution would be to install two 50 
> watt resistors.
> On the turn signal relay (that mysterious metal box mounted on the 
> left front inner fender). One 50 watt resistor would be installed 
> between terminal 2 and ground and the other between terminal 6 and ground.
> Those original flasher units are becoming VERY hard to find so it 
> would be a pity to cook any more of them.
>
> M
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 10:30 AM Michael Oritt, <michael.oritt@gmail.com 
>
>     Thanks all.  What Kees says flies in the face of both Moss's
>     (slightly inarticulate) instructions as well as the consensus of
>     the group.  I will install ONE resistor in the flasher lead of
>     each lamp, two--not four--resistors total.
>
>     Best--Michael Oritt
>
>     On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:22 AM Bob Haskell
>
>         Per the Moss video, you're creating a new ground path to
>         prevent all
>         lights blinking when you turn on the left or right turn
>         signal.  So
>         connect the ballast resistors to the turn signal circuit.
>
>         Cheers,
>
>         Bob Haskell
>         Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar
>
>         On 12/24/19 9:22 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:
>         > I purchased two of the Moss 170-941 red LED bulbs to use as
>         > tail-lights/brake-lights to replace the standard 1157 dual
>         filament
>         > bulbs on my 100 (I have the reflector pods electrified and
>         wired for
>         > turn signals).  In addition to the bulbs I also purchased,
>         at Moss's
>         > suggestion, two 170-965 Load Resistors.
>         >
>         > The instructions for installation of the resistors simply
>         talk about the
>         > resistor's being installed between the power and ground
>         leads to each
>         > fixture but it does not specify which power lead.  My
>         question is:  do I
>         > connect the ground lead to the tail light power lead or the
>         turn signal
>         > power lead or does it matter?  I cannot envision connecting
>         it to both
>         > as that would defeat their separate function.
>         >
>         > TIA....Michael Oritt
>         > 
>


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    The Moss catalog states 'You will need one [resistor] for each side
    of the car,' so I don't think it matters where you put them, as long
    as they are in parallel in the circuit.  50W resistors are pretty
    large, so I wouldn't want them in the engine bay; in the boot near
    the lights would be my preference.<br>
    <br>
    Resistor ratings are typically given in the load the resistor can
    withstand without letting the smoke out, not how much power it will
    pull--since voltage of the circuit the resistor is to be installed
    in often isn't known--but Moss isn't specific about this.  The turn
    signal circuits are separate--although Moss implies they can somehow
    bleed through--so the power draw isn't additive*.  The Moss catalog
    mentions the 'application data in the schematic section of this
    catalog' but I'll be damned if I can find said section and the
    search function on the website yields no useful results; anybody
    know the page# in the current catalog?<br>
    <br>
    The catalog is confusing as it states you'll need an electronic
    flasher if you install LEDs, then gives the option to install load
    resistors; presumably, if you don't want to replace your old-school
    flasher.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    * theoretically, since the flasher operates both sides of the
    signals you could put a single resistor on the 'signal' terminal of
    the flasher (IIRC, the flashers have GND, power and 'signal'
    terminals).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/26/2019 7:05 AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LLdKC_hVpfjUwgGJXom_9H6q6GXNki6Yg+GW=AsYMWKoA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>After due consideration I've come to realize that there is
          a problem with the planed resistor installation. 
          <div dir="auto">The original Lucas "thermal " type flasher
            unit is rated at 42 watts. </div>
          <div dir="auto">The resistors that are shown on the Moss web
            site are 50 watt. </div>
          <div dir="auto">If you were to install such a resistor, to
            simulate the load, on each turn signal bulb the load through
            the flasher unit, when the signals were selected, would be
            100 watts PLUS whatever the LED lamps drew. This would
            result in 8.3 amps flowing through the flasher unit  ...
            probably enough to burn it out!!</div>
          <div dir="auto">I would think that a far better solution would
            be to install two 50 watt resistors.</div>
          <div dir="auto">On the turn signal relay (that mysterious
            metal box mounted on the left front inner fender). One 50
            watt resistor would be installed between terminal 2 and
            ground and the other between terminal 6 and ground.</div>
          <div dir="auto">Those original flasher units are becoming VERY
            hard to find so it would be a pity to cook any more of them.</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">M</div>
          <br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 24, 2019,
              10:30 AM Michael Oritt, &lt;<a
                href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com"; rel="noreferrer
                noreferrer" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Thanks
                  all.  What Kees says flies in the face of both Moss's
                  (slightly inarticulate) instructions as well as the
                  consensus of the group.  I will install ONE resistor
                  in the flasher lead of each lamp, two--not
                  four--resistors total.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Best--Michael
                  Oritt</div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 24, 2019
                  at 10:22 AM Bob Haskell &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net";
                    rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
                    target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                  rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Per the Moss video,
                  you're creating a new ground path to prevent all <br>
                  lights blinking when you turn on the left or right
                  turn signal.  So <br>
                  connect the ballast resistors to the turn signal
                  circuit.<br>
                  <br>
                  Cheers,<br>
                  <br>
                  Bob Haskell<br>
                  Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar<br>
                  <br>
                  On 12/24/19 9:22 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:<br>
                  &gt; I purchased two of the Moss 170-941 red LED bulbs
                  to use as <br>
                  &gt; tail-lights/brake-lights to replace the standard
                  1157 dual filament <br>
                  &gt; bulbs on my 100 (I have the reflector pods
                  electrified and wired for <br>
                  &gt; turn signals).  In addition to the bulbs I also
                  purchased, at Moss's <br>
                  &gt; suggestion, two 170-965 Load Resistors.<br>
                  &gt; <br>
                  &gt; The instructions for installation of the
                  resistors simply talk about the <br>
                  &gt; resistor's being installed between the power and
                  ground leads to each <br>
                  &gt; fixture but it does not specify which power
                  lead.  My question is:  do I <br>
                  &gt; connect the ground lead to the tail light power
                  lead or the turn signal <br>
                  &gt; power lead or does it matter?  I cannot envision
                  connecting it to both <br>
                  &gt; as that would defeat their separate function.<br>
                  &gt; <br>
                  &gt; TIA....Michael Oritt<br>
                  &gt; </blockquote>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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