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GentlemenInteresting discussion but one of the items that we really have to=
compare is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are talking about.=
=C2=A0 The 1955 T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a relatively small diame=
ter three bladed fan. The stock 100 4 blade aluminum fan does not push much=
air either. Someone can run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1=
inch pitch blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get =
a reasonable idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple that with t=
he lack of fan shrouding at the radiator and the numbers are even worse.=C2=
=A0 CFM is a big part of this issue. I would be surprised if we get 1000 CF=
M at cruising (2500 RPM).=C2=A0 Imagine what idle is like.....at least whil=
e cruising the air flow is increased do to the car moving forward.=C2=A0I'm=
not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can jump in here.. Can't hur=
t my feelings because I've been wrong many times before.....Perry
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the coolin=
g system not being "large" enough.=20
My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 10=
0. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they reall=
y don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.I'm suspicious of the r=
ate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley about this subject and h=
e indicated that increasing the size of the water pump annular orifice didn=
't make much difference when he tried it.
M
M
On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a ver=
y similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed t=
he 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) t=
oo short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term loos=
ely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The spacer =
had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through the pump =
and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing t=
he usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better pump (l=
arger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer =
he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the general idea (Ford b=
asically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block flow, and the improved =
spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approach has improved cooling, t=
hough the engine probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle=
. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
=20
https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-ca=
r/productinfo/8501HO/
=20
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my B=
J8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps =
have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pret=
ty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiat=
or core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, th=
at's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of course, our en=
gines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a ma=
jor task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).
=20
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of=
an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow. B=
ut, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine n=
ot terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
=20
Bob
=20
On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys wrote:
=20
After a couple of premature failures of repro 100 water pumps I decided to=
look into rebuilding them with a modern seal and sealed bearings. I have s=
ome concerns about the small size of the annulus through which all the cool=
ant must pass in the original design so I have managed to install a conside=
rably smaller seal as in the pics attached.=C2=A0 After bench testing one o=
f the prototypes is now fitted to my car awaiting a test drive as soon as t=
he snow is gone. =20
On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 11:13 p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <healeys@au=
tox.team.net> wrote:
=20
What's the skinny on the repo 100 water pumps? Hear they leak and need br=
oken in dry. Uprated pump any good? Moss states the brass tap can be screwe=
d into the uprated pump, but from the pictures it actually looks like the s=
tandard has threads and not the uprated. Can anyone confirm? Rebuild origin=
al?Thoughts/ advice welcomed? TY, Shawn=20
The Millers
=C2=A0
"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test dr=
ive."
=20
=20
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
lter@gmail.com
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Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
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<div style=3D"color:black;font: 10pt Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<div>Gentlemen</div>
Interesting discussion but one of the items that we really have to compare =
is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are talking about. The =
1955 T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a relatively small diameter three b=
laded fan. The stock 100 4 blade aluminum fan does not push much air either=
. Someone can run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1 inch pitch=
blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get a reasonabl=
e idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple that with the lack of =
fan shrouding at the radiator and the numbers are even worse. CFM is =
a big part of this issue. I would be surprised if we get 1000 CFM at cruisi=
ng (2500 RPM). Imagine what idle is like.....at least while cruising =
the air flow is increased do to the car moving forward.
<div>I'm not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can jump in here.. C=
an't hurt my feelings because I've been wrong many times before.....</div>
<div>Perry<br>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net><br>
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net><br>
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net><br>
Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"yiv1213687328">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;">Yes Bob, there is something wrong =
with our assumptions regarding the cooling system not being "large" enough.=
<br clear=3D"none"></span></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;">My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP a=
nd the radiator has less area than the 100. Certainly it has a couple of ve=
ry effective electric fans but they really don't cut in very often unless y=
ou have the AC on.</span></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;">I'm suspicious of the rate of circ=
ulation but I've talked to Larry Varley about this subject and he indicated=
that increasing the size of the water pump annular orifice didn't make muc=
h difference when he tried it.</span></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans m=
s, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><span style=3D"font-family:arial, sans-seri=
f;">M</span><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans m=
s, sans-serif;font-size:small;"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans m=
s, sans-serif;font-size:small;">M<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328yqt0603033562" id=3D"yiv1213687328yqt27841">
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 1=
1:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"re=
ct" ymailto=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailt=
o:bspidell@comcast.net">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"non=
e"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
=20
=20
=20
=20
<div>
I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have
a very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When
Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the
engine was (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they
'engineered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the
fan closer to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of
severely limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there
are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the usual
radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better pump
(larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of
the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the
general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to
block flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears
this approach has improved cooling, though the engine probably still
gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the
improved pumps:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-=
Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modifi=
ed-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp.
on my BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on
Healeys. Their pumps have very small vanes, and the cavity in which
the vanes operate seems pretty small for such a large lump of cast
iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator core won't help much if the
coolant flow is still hampered; at least, that's what I've found).
This is probably not an option as, of course, our engines don't have
a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a major task
to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).<br c=
lear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too
big of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too
little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by
comparison--and the engine not terribly larger in displacement--and
still suffers the same problem.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Bob<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
=20
<div>On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via
Healeys wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
=20
<div>After a couple of premature failures of repro 100
water pumps I decided to look into rebuilding them with a modern
seal and sealed bearings.
=20
<div>I have some concerns about the small size of the
annulus through which all the coolant must pass in the
original design so I have managed to install a considerably
smaller seal as in the pics attached. </div>
=20
<div>After bench testing one of the prototypes is now
fitted to my car awaiting a test drive as soon as the snow is
gone.</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
=20
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_quote">
=20
<div class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 1=
1:13
p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</=
a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"yiv1213687328gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
=20
<div>
=20
<div>What's the skinny on the repo 100 water pumps? Hear
they leak and need broken in dry. Uprated pump any good?
Moss states the brass tap can be screwed into the uprated
pump, but from the pictures it actually looks like the
standard has threads and not the uprated. Can anyone
confirm? Rebuild original?Thoughts/ advice welcomed?</div>
=20
<div>TY, Shawn</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div>The Millers<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique
car is a test drive."<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
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