--===============6415691637352631736==
--000000000000238d5105bcefbe4b
Bob
Just a bit of information that might be of help.
The Pump fitted to 100, A70, and A90, etc. was serviced as one item with
the pulley. The pump however was used on many later BMC 4 cylinder petrol
engines where it was serviced without the pulley. The pulleys in this case
were narrower or multi-groove.
If one is searching old stock outlets the pump less pulley was used until
the early 60s.
Part number 10K 44 Service kit major 8G 2302 minor 8G2042
There might be a small difference where heater, by-pass, and plugs fit but
these can be easily changed
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 at 00:17, Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
> The single most effective thing I did to alleviate heat-up at idle was to
> install a Hayden 7-bladed stainless steel flex fan (part of a kit with a
> shroud the Nocks once sold). I just couldn't stand the noise it made, and
> the fact it blew dust up from the road.
>
> On 3/6/2021 12:06 PM, healeyguy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Gentlemen
> Interesting discussion but one of the items that we really have to compare
> is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are talking about. The 1955
> T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a relatively small diameter three bladed
> fan. The stock 100 4 blade aluminum fan does not push much air either.
> Someone can run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1 inch pitch
> blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get a reasonable
> idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple that with the lack of
> fan shrouding at the radiator and the numbers are even worse. CFM is a big
> part of this issue. I would be surprised if we get 1000 CFM at cruising
> (2500 RPM). Imagine what idle is like.....at least while cruising the air
> flow is increased do to the car moving forward.
> I'm not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can jump in here.. Can't
> hurt my feelings because I've been wrong many times before.....
> Perry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> <healeys@autox.team.net>
> To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> <bspidell@comcast.net>
> Cc: healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net>
> <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>
> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
> cooling system not being "large" enough.
> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley
> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water
> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>
> M
>
> M
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a very
> similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed the
> 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) too
> short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term
> loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The
> spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through
> the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend,
> after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a
> better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not
> of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the
> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approach
> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it has
> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>
>
> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/
>
> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps
> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it
> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but
> I can dream).
>
> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of
> an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow.
> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine
> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>
> Bob
>
> On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys wrote:
>
> After a couple of premature failures of repro 100 water pumps I decided to
> look into rebuilding them with a modern seal and sealed bearings.
> I have some concerns about the small size of the annulus through which all
> the coolant must pass in the original design so I have managed to install a
> considerably smaller seal as in the pics attached.
> After bench testing one of the prototypes is now fitted to my car awaiting
> a test drive as soon as the snow is gone.
>
> On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 11:13 p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> What's the skinny on the repo 100 water pumps? Hear they leak and need
> broken in dry. Uprated pump any good? Moss states the brass tap can be
> screwed into the uprated pump, but from the pictures it actually looks like
> the standard has threads and not the uprated. Can anyone confirm? Rebuild
> original?Thoughts/ advice welcomed?
> TY, Shawn
>
> The Millers
>
> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test
> drive."
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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>
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> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
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>
>
--000000000000238d5105bcefbe4b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob<div><br></div><div>Just a bit of information that migh=
t be of help.</div><div><br></div><div>The Pump fitted to 100, A70, and A90=
, etc. was serviced as one item with the pulley. The pump however was used =
on many later BMC 4 cylinder petrol engines where it was serviced without=
=C2=A0the pulley. The pulleys in this case were narrower or multi-groove.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>If one is searching=C2=A0old stock outlets =
the pump less pulley was used until the early 60s.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Part number 10K 44=C2=A0 =C2=A0Service=C2=A0kit major 8G 2302=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
minor=C2=A0 8G2042</div><div><br></div><div>There might be a small differen=
ce=C2=A0where heater, by-pass, and plugs fit but these can be easily change=
d</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 at 00:17, Bob Spidell <<a href=
=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
The single most effective thing I did to alleviate heat-up at idle
was to install a Hayden 7-bladed stainless steel flex fan (part of a
kit with a shroud the Nocks once sold). I just couldn't stand the
noise it made, and the fact it blew dust up from the road.<br>
<br>
<div>On 3/6/2021 12:06 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:healeyguy@aol.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">healeyguy@aol.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div>Gentlemen</div>
Interesting discussion but one of the items that we really have
to compare is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are
talking about.=C2=A0 The 1955 T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a
relatively small diameter three bladed fan. The stock 100 4
blade aluminum fan does not push much air either. Someone can
run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1 inch pitch
blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get a
reasonable idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple
that with the lack of fan shrouding at the radiator and the
numbers are even worse.=C2=A0 CFM is a big part of this issue. I
would be surprised if we get 1000 CFM at cruising (2500 RPM).=C2=A0
Imagine what idle is like.....at least while cruising the air
flow is increased do to the car moving forward.=C2=A0
<div>I'm not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can =
jump
in here.. Can't hurt my feelings because I've been wrong =
many
times before.....</div>
<div>Perry<br>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:bl=
ack"><font size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Michael Salter via Healeys
<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">&=
lt;healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
To: Bob Spidell <a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank"><bspidell@comcast.net></a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">healeys@autox.team.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; tar=
get=3D"_blank"><healeys@autox.team.net></a><br>
Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-2435984634715962628yiv1213687328">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,sans-serif">Yes Bob,
there is something wrong with our assumptions
regarding the cooling system not being "large&=
quot;
enough. <br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,sans-serif">My wifes
Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has
less area than the 100. Certainly it has a
couple of very effective electric fans but they
really don't cut in very often unless you have
the AC on.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,sans-serif">I'm
suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've
talked to Larry Varley about this subject and he
indicated that increasing the size of the water
pump annular orifice didn't make much differenc=
e
when he tried it.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,sans-serif"><br clear=3D"none">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:"comic sans ms",san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">M</sp=
an><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:"comic sans ms",san=
s-serif;font-size:small"><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:"comic sans ms",san=
s-serif;font-size:small">M<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-2435984634715962628yiv1213687328yqt=
27841">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On
Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a rel=
=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:bspidell@co=
mcast.net" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird
to my BFF. These cars have a very similar
problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle.
When Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the
T-Bird, they found the engine was
(essentially) too short for the long-hooded
car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term
loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan
closer to the radiator. The spacer had the
added 'benefit' of severely limiting cool=
ant
flow through the pump and radiator; there are
some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after
doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan,
etc. installed both a better pump (larger
vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached
pic is not of the spacer he used--I can't fin=
d
the link to it--but it shows the general idea
(Ford basically put a 'dam' in the coolin=
g
system to block flow, and the improved spacers
mostly remove it). It appears this approach
has improved cooling, though the engine
probably still gets warm if it has to sit too
long at idle. Link is to one of the improved
pumps:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"=
rect" href=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-O=
utput-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classict=
bird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO=
/</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to
increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I've
wondered if a similar approach would work on
Healeys. Their pumps have very small vanes,
and the cavity in which the vanes operate
seems pretty small for such a large lump of
cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator
core won't help much if the coolant flow is
still hampered; at least, that's what I'v=
e
found). This is probably not an option as, of
course, our engines don't have a similar
spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a
major task to increase both the cavity's size
and the pump (but I can dream).<br clear=3D"none"=
>
<br clear=3D"none">
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is
usually attributed to too big of an engine in
too small of an engine compartment, and too
little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old
T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine
not terribly larger in displacement--and still
suffers the same problem.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Bob<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via
Healeys wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>After a couple of premature failures of
repro 100 water pumps I decided to look
into rebuilding them with a modern seal
and sealed bearings.
<div>I have some concerns about the small
size of the annulus through which all
the coolant must pass in the original
design so I have managed to install a
considerably smaller seal as in the pics
attached.=C2=A0</div>
<div>After bench testing one of the
prototypes is now fitted to my car
awaiting a test drive as soon as the
snow is gone.</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 11:13
p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <<a rel=
=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:healeys@aut=
ox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>What's the skinny on the repo 10=
0
water pumps? Hear they leak and need
broken in dry. Uprated pump any
good? Moss states the brass tap can
be screwed into the uprated pump,
but from the pictures it actually
looks like the standard has threads
and not the uprated. Can anyone
confirm? Rebuild original?Thoughts/
advice welcomed?</div>
<div>TY, Shawn</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>The Millers<br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
"Always drive them, but remember
each drive in an antique car is a
test drive."<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote></div>
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