--===============6098900317663446986==
--0000000000004e135d05bce40bce
I think there is a lot to what you say Perry.
We have to remember that the 100 was designed and built in days where
traffic jams were relatively unusual and overheating while cruising is
pretty unusual.
M
On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 3:06 p.m. , <healeyguy@aol.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen
> Interesting discussion but one of the items that we really have to compare
> is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are talking about. The 1955
> T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a relatively small diameter three bladed
> fan. The stock 100 4 blade aluminum fan does not push much air either.
> Someone can run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1 inch pitch
> blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get a reasonable
> idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple that with the lack of
> fan shrouding at the radiator and the numbers are even worse. CFM is a big
> part of this issue. I would be surprised if we get 1000 CFM at cruising
> (2500 RPM). Imagine what idle is like.....at least while cruising the air
> flow is increased do to the car moving forward.
> I'm not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can jump in here.. Can't
> hurt my feelings because I've been wrong many times before.....
> Perry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Salter via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
> Cc: healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>
> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
> cooling system not being "large" enough.
> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley
> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water
> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>
> M
>
> M
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a very
> similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed the
> 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) too
> short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term
> loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The
> spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through
> the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend,
> after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a
> better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not
> of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the
> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approach
> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it has
> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>
>
> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/
>
> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps
> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it
> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but
> I can dream).
>
> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of
> an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow.
> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine
> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>
> Bob
>
> On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys wrote:
>
> After a couple of premature failures of repro 100 water pumps I decided to
> look into rebuilding them with a modern seal and sealed bearings.
> I have some concerns about the small size of the annulus through which all
> the coolant must pass in the original design so I have managed to install a
> considerably smaller seal as in the pics attached.
> After bench testing one of the prototypes is now fitted to my car awaiting
> a test drive as soon as the snow is gone.
>
> On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 11:13 p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> What's the skinny on the repo 100 water pumps? Hear they leak and need
> broken in dry. Uprated pump any good? Moss states the brass tap can be
> screwed into the uprated pump, but from the pictures it actually looks like
> the standard has threads and not the uprated. Can anyone confirm? Rebuild
> original?Thoughts/ advice welcomed?
> TY, Shawn
>
> The Millers
>
> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test
> drive."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Suggested annual donation $12.75
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>
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>
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> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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--0000000000004e135d05bce40bce
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">I think there is a lot to what you say Perry.=C2=A0<div d=
ir=3D"auto">We have to remember that the 100 was designed and built in days=
where traffic jams were relatively unusual and overheating while cruising =
is pretty unusual.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 3:06 p.m. , <<a href=3D"mailto:healeyguy@=
aol.com">healeyguy@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">
<div style=3D"color:black;font:10pt Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div>Gentlemen</div>
Interesting discussion but one of the items that we really have to compare =
is the CFM of the radiator fan on the cars we are talking about.=C2=A0 The =
1955 T Bird uses, if I recall correctly a relatively small diameter three b=
laded fan. The stock 100 4 blade aluminum fan does not push much air either=
. Someone can run the numbers for a 4 blade, 15 inch diameter, 1 inch pitch=
blade and get the CFM at idle, 1000 and 2500 (fan) RPM and get a reasonabl=
e idea of the 100's fans ability to move air. Couple that with the lack=
of fan shrouding at the radiator and the numbers are even worse.=C2=A0 CFM=
is a big part of this issue. I would be surprised if we get 1000 CFM at cr=
uising (2500 RPM).=C2=A0 Imagine what idle is like.....at least while cruis=
ing the air flow is increased do to the car moving forward.=C2=A0
<div>I'm not a mechanical engineer so some of you ME's can jump in =
here.. Can't hurt my feelings because I've been wrong many times be=
fore.....</div>
<div>Perry<br>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"><font=
size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Michael Salter via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br>
To: Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team=
.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><b=
r>
Sent: Sat, Mar 6, 2021 12:20 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"m_-6299768627512294281yiv1213687328">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
>Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the cooli=
ng system not being "large" enough. <br clear=3D"none"></span></d=
iv>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
>My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 1=
00. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they real=
ly don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
>I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry=
Varley about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the=
water pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried i=
t.</span></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
><br clear=3D"none"></span></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif">M</span><br clear=3D"none"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br cle=
ar=3D"none"></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br cl=
ear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div id=3D"m_-6299768627512294281yiv1213687328yqt27841">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a rel=3D"=
nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:bspi=
dell@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br =
clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
=20
<div>
I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have
a very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When
Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the
engine was (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they
'engineered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to mov=
e the
fan closer to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' =
of
severely limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there
are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the usual
radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a better pump
(larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of
the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the
general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system =
to
block flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears
this approach has improved cooling, though the engine probably still
gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the
improved pumps:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"h=
ttps://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car=
/productinfo/8501HO/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-=
Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br clear=
=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp.
on my BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on
Healeys. Their pumps have very small vanes, and the cavity in which
the vanes operate seems pretty small for such a large lump of cast
iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator core won't help much if =
the
coolant flow is still hampered; at least, that's what I've foun=
d).
This is probably not an option as, of course, our engines don't hav=
e
a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a major task
to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).<=
br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too
big of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too
little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by
comparison--and the engine not terribly larger in displacement--and
still suffers the same problem.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Bob<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
=20
<div>On 3/6/2021 5:57 AM, Michael Salter via
Healeys wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
=20
<div>After a couple of premature failures of repro 100
water pumps I decided to look into rebuilding them with a modern
seal and sealed bearings.
=20
<div>I have some concerns about the small size of the
annulus through which all the coolant must pass in the
original design so I have managed to install a considerably
smaller seal as in the pics attached.=C2=A0</div>
=20
<div>After bench testing one of the prototypes is now
fitted to my car awaiting a test drive as soon as the snow is
gone.</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
=20
<div>
=20
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri., Mar. 5, 2021, 11:13
p.m. S and T Miller via Healeys, <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener =
noreferrer noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net=
" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
=20
<div>
=20
<div>What's the skinny on the repo 100 water pumps? Hear
they leak and need broken in dry. Uprated pump any good?
Moss states the brass tap can be screwed into the uprated
pump, but from the pictures it actually looks like the
standard has threads and not the uprated. Can anyone
confirm? Rebuild original?Thoughts/ advice welcomed?</div>
=20
<div>TY, Shawn</div>
=20
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
=20
<div>The Millers<br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
"Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antiqu=
e
car is a test drive."<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
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