tigers
[Top] [All Lists]

RE: 10.7.51 of the CA. motor vehicle code

To: tigers@Autox.Team.Net, "'Vonski@aol.com'" <Vonski@aol.com>
Subject: RE: 10.7.51 of the CA. motor vehicle code
From: "Richard Atherton (Entex)" <a-richat@MICROSOFT.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 04:49:27 -0700
        You said that not having documents is bad.  What other documents
other than a title for the car would be needed?

Rich


> ----------
> From:         Vonski@aol.com[SMTP:Vonski@aol.com]
> Sent:         Tuesday, May 13, 1997 11:00 AM
> To:   tigers@autox.team.net
> Subject:      Re: 10.7.51 of the CA. motor vehicle code
> 
> This is intended for those who are considering doing a full
> restoration, and
> who want to take the serial number plate off the cowl.
> 
> Obviously I was unclear yesterday.  In an effort to determine the
> accuracy of
> my statements I spoke to: a civilian inspector from the Washigton
> State
> Vehicle Inspection Center, a local Auto Theft Detective who previously
> worked
> for a large southern California police agency as an auto theft
> detective, the
> FBI and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.  
> 
> In 1968 there was a Federal Standards Act, which codified the
> placement and
> attachment method of vin tags.  This resulted in the familiar
> windshield
> placement of the vin, so that it became 'public', and open to
> inspection by
> law enforcement without court order or permission.  This was not the
> first
> time that vins were mandated under Federal Law. Remember though, that
> vehicles are 'real property', and have titles issued which use the
> serial
> number/vin to identify the vehicle.  
> 
> Prior to 1958 the engine block number of each vehicle was the
> identification
> number used for the vehicle-remember the Harley example?  This also
> applied
> to cars, and when you exchanged the motor in your pre-1958 auto, you
> were
> supposed to notify the State Dept. of Motor Vehicles to have them
> record the
> serial number change.  This was obviously cumbersome, and was changed.
> 
> AFTER 1958, Federal law amended the rules, assigning a vehicle I.D.
> number/serial number to the CHASSIS of each car. This puts ALL of the
> 1960s
> Tigers within the rules regarding serial/vin numbers.  There is no
> federal
> law which allows these numbers to removed for restoration.
> 
> Regarding Due Process-since the Federal Law was instituted in '58,
> this
> arguement does not apply.  Since the engine number was used as the
> I.D. by
> the states prior to '58, this arguement still does not apply.  Sorry.
>  Further, vehicle registrations are not governed by the Feds...we have
> individual state plates, not a Federal License plate.  In an instance
> where
> the Feds are absent, the States are allowed to exercise their taxing
> authority (remember State's Rights?).  In all 50 states of the Union,
> vehicle
> licenses are handled under state authority.
> 
> The civilian inspector for WSP stated that a sure fire way to get a
> car
> flagged as a problem vin, was to show up with glistening paint under
> the 32
> year old vin or serial number plate.  They will flag the car, inspect
> the
> rivets, determine if they've been tampered with, require
> documentation, and
> affix their own tag-often next to the original, using the same
> numbers.
>  Remember, that if you move to a different state (like to WA. for the
> big
> Microsoft/Boeing bucks), you will usually have to get your car
> inspected
> before they will issue plates.
> 
> According to the detective who had worked in southern Ca., California
> Highway
> Patrol inspectors see it the same way, and act in the same manner.  In
> fact,
> just about all of the states follow a similar program.
> 
> Per the FBI Agent, there is no Federal Law allowing vin tags to be
> removed
> for restoration, and all of the vehicle registration issues are
> handled on
> the STATE level.
> 
> On the state level, cars without tags can get crushed-3 Tigers which
> were
> stolen and had the vins popped were crushed in Santa Ana in about
> 1975...the
> parts had all been swapped around, and the Judge ordered them
> destroyed
> because they could not determine real identity of any of the cars, and
> a 1964
> Corvette was crushed when the owner popped the tag for restoration,
> and had
> no supporting documentation...a fact firsthand from a detective
> involved in
> the cases. 
> 
> So, again I repeat. Do not remove your vin tags. Until someone can
> show me
> specific Title and Section of the Federal code which refutes all of
> these
> people-many who are certified as experts in a Federal Court of law,
> then the
> truth is your vin tags are there to stay.
> 
> I thought that citing California Motor Vehicle Code would be enough,
> hopefully you all will find this more rational, and we can put this
> long
> abused practice to rest.
> 
> Von Levandowski   
> 

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>