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Re: [TR] needs repaired

To: JOE CURRY <spitlist@cox.net>, Ron L'Herault <lherault@verizon.net>, triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] needs repaired
From: TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2020 17:19:12 -0500 (EST)
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: triumphs@autox.team.net
Importance: Medium
References: <000401d5d553$b040b450$10c21cf0$.ref@net> <000401d5d553$b040b450$10c21cf0$@net> <1535396776.926236.1580159107916@myemail.cox.net>
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For what it's worth, there are three types of grammar, maybe more now.  One=
:  prescriptive.  Two:  descriptive.  Three:  Transformational.

Sister Eloise with the stick was decidedly prescriptive.  Language "must" a=
dhere. =20

Trouble is, language is constantly evolving.  Sentence subjects are no long=
er as gender specific.  It's now okay to write lite instead of light.  Desc=
riptive grammar is how people actually use it.  Hence it's not inappropriat=
e to use the term "needs restored."

Transformational grammar is the study of language that takes it back to whe=
n it is first acquired as an infant.  Children "babble" in Chinese long bef=
ore they actually start speaking Chinese.  Deep structure is the term used =
for when a thought first becomes language and helps describe when ellipses =
remove words, yet we still understand the meaning:  "Needs [to be] restored=
 like that one."

I taught high school English for several years and my specialty was teachin=
g remedial writing to kids who had failed at that hands of English Nazis al=
l through school.  It took some major doing to get them to relax enough wit=
h language to realize that spelling, for instance, comes to English words f=
rom an anarchy of imported foreign languages, so don't sweat that you haven=
't memorized the difference between night and knight. =20

Obligatory Triumph content:  "I put fluif in my Triumf."

> On January 27, 2020 at 4:05 PM JOE CURRY <spitlist@cox.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>     I resemble that remark!  :)
>=20
>=20
>         > > On January 27, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ron L'Herault <lherault@verizo=
n.net> wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> >         Warning:   This is not Triumph related. =20
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         I=E2=80=99m an uptight New Englander who was taught English gra=
mmar by nuns who had sticks.  8-).     Face Book, was the first place I=E2=
=80=99d seen this usage.  Now it appears in a mailing list message.
> >=20
> >         =E2=80=9CNeeds Restored like that one.=E2=80=9D
> >=20
> >         ---------------------------------
> >=20
> >         I look at that and first wonder, needs restored what?   Then de=
ep in the recesses of my mind, I hear Sister Thomasina saying  =E2=80=9CYou=
 will write =E2=80=98needs to be restored=E2=80=99 100 times on the blackbo=
ard. When you are done, you will write =E2=80=98needs restoration=E2=80=99 =
100 times as well.=E2=80=9D =20
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         So, since it is not a Triumph question, if people want to answe=
r privately, super.   Do you use this sentence construction habitually?  In=
 what part of the country do you live?  I was not an English major. I=E2=80=
=99m definitely not a great writer and don=E2=80=99t spell everything corre=
ctly, but I=E2=80=99m extremely curious to find out the extent of the usage=
 and this is a nice friendly group who may be able to help me.
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         Let=E2=80=99s hear it for fluif.
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         Ron L=E2=80=99Herault
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >         =20
> >=20
> >     >=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>         > > ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
> >=20
> >         Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team=
.net/archive
> >=20
> >         Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/trium=
phs/spitlist@cox.net
> >=20
> >     >=20
>=20
>     =20
>=20
>     ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
>     Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/a=
rchive
>=20
>     Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/te=
rryrs@comcast.net
>=20



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<!doctype html>
<html>
 <head>=20
  <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
 </head>
 <body>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   For what it's worth, there are three types of grammar, maybe more now.&n=
bsp; One:&nbsp; prescriptive.&nbsp; Two:&nbsp; descriptive.&nbsp; Three:&nb=
sp; Transformational.
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Sister Eloise with the stick was decidedly prescriptive.&nbsp; Language =
"must" adhere.&nbsp;&nbsp;
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Trouble is, language is constantly evolving.&nbsp; Sentence subjects are=
 no longer as gender specific.&nbsp; It's now okay to write lite instead of=
 light.&nbsp; Descriptive grammar is how people actually use it.&nbsp; Henc=
e it's not inappropriate to use the term "needs restored."
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Transformational grammar is the study of language that takes it back to =
when it is first acquired as an infant.&nbsp; Children "babble" in Chinese =
long before they actually start speaking Chinese.&nbsp; Deep structure is t=
he term used for when a thought first becomes language and helps describe w=
hen ellipses remove words, yet we still understand the meaning:&nbsp; "Need=
s [to be] restored like that one."
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   I taught high school English for several years and my specialty was teac=
hing remedial writing to kids who had failed at that hands of English Nazis=
 all through school.&nbsp; It took some major doing to get them to relax en=
ough with language to realize that spelling, for instance, comes to English=
 words from an anarchy of imported foreign languages, so don't sweat that y=
ou haven't memorized the difference between night and knight.&nbsp;&nbsp;
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   <br>
  </div>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
 color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
   Obligatory Triumph content:&nbsp; "I put fluif in my Triumf."
  </div>
  <blockquote type=3D"cite">
   On January 27, 2020 at 4:05 PM JOE CURRY &lt;spitlist@cox.net&gt; wrote:=
=20
   <br>=20
   <br>
   <p>I resemble that remark!&nbsp; :)</p>
   <p><br></p>
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">
    On January 27, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ron L'Herault &lt;lherault@verizon.net&g=
t; wrote:=20
    <br>=20
    <br>
    <div class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-WordSection1">
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoNormal">Warning:&nbsp;&nbsp=
; This is not Triumph related.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99m an upti=
ght New Englander who was taught English grammar by nuns who had sticks.&nb=
sp; 8-).&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Face Book, was the first place I=E2=80=99d=
 seen this usage.&nbsp; Now it appears in a mailing list message.</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">=E2=80=9CNeeds R=
estored like that one.=E2=80=9D</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">----------------=
-----------------</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">I look at that a=
nd first wonder, needs restored what?&nbsp;&nbsp; Then deep in the recesses=
 of my mind, I hear Sister Thomasina saying&nbsp; =E2=80=9CYou will write =
=E2=80=98needs to be restored=E2=80=99 100 times on the blackboard. When yo=
u are done, you will write =E2=80=98needs restoration=E2=80=99 100 times as=
 well.=E2=80=9D&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">So, since it is =
not a Triumph question, if people want to answer privately, super.&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Do you use this sentence construction habitually?&nbsp; In what part of=
 the country do you live?&nbsp; I was not an English major. I=E2=80=99m def=
initely not a great writer and don=E2=80=99t spell everything correctly, bu=
t I=E2=80=99m extremely curious to find out the extent of the usage and thi=
s is a nice friendly group who may be able to help me.</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">Let=E2=80=99s he=
ar it for fluif.</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">Ron L=E2=80=99He=
rault</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoPlainText">&nbsp;</p>
     <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-ox-fa320755a5-MsoNormal">&nbsp;<br></p>
    </div>
   </blockquote>
   <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-default-style"><br>&nbsp;</p>
   <blockquote type=3D"cite">
    ** triumphs@autox.team.net **=20
    <br>=20
    <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
    <br>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net=
/archive=20
    <br>=20
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spitlist@cox.net=20
    <br>
   </blockquote>
   <p class=3D"ox-a706b5d372-default-style"><br>&nbsp;</p>** triumphs@autox=
.team.net **=20
   <br>=20
   <br>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html=20
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erryrs@comcast.net=20
   <br>
  </blockquote>
  <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
   <br>&nbsp;
  </div>=20
 </body>
</html>
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