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Ford C-4 Tranny Gear Deliberations

To: land-speed@autox.team.net
Subject: Ford C-4 Tranny Gear Deliberations
From: ARDUNDOUG@aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:53:10 EDT
Group,
    Attached is some correspondence with a new found crew member we met at 
the KOA at Speed Week. Elon is a middle aged drag racer who has taught high 
school auto shop in the past and is now an engineer at the Lawrence Livermore 
Labs in Livermore, CA (10 miles from my home). He had flown his Cessna 172 to 
Wendover Intnl. on Sunday and hitchiked to the KOA, lucked out by renting one 
of their cabins, and was walking through the campground when he saw the extra 
Ardun/Flatty in the push truck. 
    In the ensuing conversation we offered him daily transportation to and 
from the salt, but he would have to get up at 4:30AM to take advantage of the 
ride since we were in Impound a couple of mornings in a row. He ended up 
"hanging-out" with our motley crew, hopefully getting hooked on salt.
    One of our ongoing deliberations during the meet was the RPM drop we were 
experiencing on our shifts with the C-4 in the Ardun/Flatty powered Modified 
Roadster. The stock C-4 ratios of 2.46/1.46 were causing the motor to drop 
about 2600RPM on the 1-2 shift and about 2000RPM on the 2-3 shift. The nitro 
would pull the revs back up pretty quickly on the long course but on the 
gas-passes (pardon the pun) the motor needed closer gears. My feeling was 
that the car could benefit in general from closer ratios. I did some research 
and found that alternative ratios of down to 2:1 low gears and 1.33:1 second 
gears are available although pricey ($850-$1300 for the low and second gear 
sets).
    Any of you using or contemplating the use of the C-4 tranny in an LSR car 
might find the following interesting.................Ardun Doug King (1313 
XX/FMR) 
<< 
 Hi Doug:
 
 Actually, I think the 2-3 shift with the NEW gears is a 23% drop
 (1/1.3 = 0.769) which I am assuming (depending on the cam) is even
 better than the 25% drop you mentioned.  That means that if you make
 the 2-3 shift at 6500 RPM the motor will drop to only 5,000 RPM  for
 that final, long pull.  Mike forwarded me your narrative and you indicated 
that the
 gas motor had a tough time pulling the taller gear when Brian was
 qualifying. With the 23% drop you just might be able to pull that
 taller gear on gas since the motor will be starting the 2-3 pull much
 higher up on the RPM curve (5,000) and not down around 4,500. It all
 depends on the cam and you have the best feel for that. 
##############
    It might pull the taller gear on gas with a closer ratio setup in the 
C-4. You're right, the drop 1-2 with the 2.0:1 first gear will be 34.5% 
(1.33/2.00) as opposed to 40.7% (1.46/2.46) as it is now. The drop 2-3 with 
the 1.33:1 second gear should be 24.8% as opposed to the 31.5% as it is now.  
With the present setup it drops to about 3860RPM 1-2 and to about 4450RPM 2-3 
using the stock 2.46:1 first gear and the 1.46:1 second gear. With the 2.0:1 
low gear and the 1.33:1 second gear I figure that it'll drop to 4320RPM on 
the 1-2 shift (1.33/2.00) and to about 4900RPM on the 2-3 shift (1.0/1.33). 
Please check my math out and let me know what you think.
################
 
 I don't know how hard the top-end pull was on the nitro motor but I
 think you indicated that you pulled off before the 5 mile. So I would
 guess that the closer ratio 2-3 shift, would let the nitro motor pull
 a slightly taller gear also. I really, don't know because it all
 depends on the cam... and you know that  better than anyone. The other
 alternative is that the closer ratio may let you experiment with a
 more narrow-band cam.
 ################
The motor seems happiest from 5000RPM to 6500RPM+. As I recall, John DeLong 
said that cams power band started somewhere around 3500, but with these 
little engines it feels best to me above 4500RPM. I have several DeLong cams 
that I'd like to stick with in the short term. When John died all his 
machinery and cam masters went to Rod Furtado, the Flatty machinist in San 
Jose. Jim Stevens (the guy next to us in impound with the 165MPH Flatty 
street roadster) has some ideas for a mushroom lifter cam next year. I'll 
probably try his ideas then.
#####################
 Another thing to consider (but I don't know much about) is that I have
 heard that nitro builds a lot of heat in a motor.  If you start the
 2-3 pull at a higher 5,000 rpm with a slightly taller gear you will
 have been producing more horsepower over a longer period of time
 ...building a lot more heat. You may need to consider your cooling tank 
capacity. 
######################
The aluminum Ardun heads dissipate(sp?) a lot of heat. As it is I run a 195 
deg. thermostat and that does the job pretty well, indicating 200 deg. at the 
end of the long-course.
##################### 
 Do you think the taller 1st gear will may cause a problem? The higher
 starting gear will put a greater demand on the converter (building
 heat) or loading up the engine?
 ########################
I have a tranny cooler under the tonneau cover and right aft of the coolant 
tank. Since the aerodynamic resistance in low gear will be much less than in 
second and high, plus the fact that it's a fairly tight converter, I feel 
that I'll be OK on tranny temp also.
#########################
 Another question.  What was the final gear you were using on the 208
 mph run?  I have been playing with a few numbers and with a 28" dia
 tire at 6,500 rpm and 208 MPH I get a ratio of 2.6 : 1. (assuming NO
 SLIPPAGE or any kind in either the converter or the tires). But I
 thought you were running a 2.48 : 1.  
 ##########################
We had a 2.48:1 gear in the Quickie on the fuel runs and Brians 179 pass with 
28.5" Goodyear Funny Car fronts. Ed Weldon did a chart for me with the 
different ratio's RPM's, and percent slippages. The 208-210 at 6500 with 2.5% 
slippage was really close to what we actually did. The final gas pass was 
with a 2.7 gear in the Quickie.
#########################

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