--===============1960665221273794404==
--00000000000015e99005bf53b1fd
The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year
150K for California.
The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric,
or the VW Golf E-something.
I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is
really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they
will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars.
Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is
not great.
I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my
life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine.
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com> wrote:
> When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a
> few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have
> improved.
>
> That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation.
>
> It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline
> and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline
> engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the
> opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not
> production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas
> engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and
> differential. This is not optimal.
>
> The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic
> and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40
> mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than
> the gas version, the payback period was many years.
>
> Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part,
> because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to
> GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle.
> Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the ground
> up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that Elon
> Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale market
> for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance, but
> the primary attraction.
>
> As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and more
> vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices will
> come down.
>
> I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas
> vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become.
> Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical
> improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I
> suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions.
> Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Paul Root <ptroot@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM
> *To:* Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com
> >
> *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG
> Sports Car Concept
>
> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's
> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done
> youtube videos for them. Worth a look.
>
> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a
> google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars.
>
> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic,
> both in mining it and disposing of it.
>
> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest
> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will
> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will.
>
> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot
> heavier.
>
> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're
> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about
> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the
> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius
> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car
> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the
> cost of replacing the batteries or engine.
>
> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of
> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully
> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop
> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the
> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current
> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems.
>
> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to
> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through
> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for
> this now, but this remains a problem.
>
> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations.
> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations
> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are
> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations.
> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now
> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM
> *To:* James Dillner <spr1ng19@outlook.com>; Dan DiBiase <
> dan.dibiase@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73@gmail.com>; mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>;
> MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports
> Car Concept
>
> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I
> am missing something.
>
> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out
> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar.
>
> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire usage
> and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons.
> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per
> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.
>
> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from
> Tesla) would run $8,800.
>
> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil
> changes the total is about $8,500.
>
> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.
>
> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars
> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in..
> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know.
>
> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would
> be nearly impossible.
>
> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging
> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging
> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a
> day could get old.
>
> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win.
>
> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much
> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh
> battery. Changed from below.
>
> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might have
> more.
>
> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would
> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a
> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out
> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery
> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just
> swap the half used battery.
>
> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to
> be built in order as the robots don't care.
>
> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is tough
> to see until many years from now.
>
> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for
> trips, but the current model works for me.
>
> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:
>
> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>
> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
>
> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer
> can outrun its predecessor.
>
> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch@yahoo.com
> resch@reschonline.com
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <
> dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15
> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery).
>
> Dan D
> Central NJ USA
> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <spr1ng19@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla
> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little
> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I
> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked
> together.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com> on
> behalf of PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM
> *Cc:* mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com
> >
> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept
>
> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the
> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys
> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and
> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall
> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before.
>
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based
> on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything
> with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another
> internal combustion vehicle for my daily use.
>
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--00000000000015e99005bf53b1fd
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty=C2=A0for mos=
t of the US, 10 year 150K for California.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>The clos=
est apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, or the VW=
Golf E-something.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I think Telsa=C2=A0cost s=
o much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa=C2=A0is really a software =
company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they will make it a=
s more car companies start building more electric cars. Reports I've se=
en,=C2=A0is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not great.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4=
more cars (daily drivers) in my life, I would bet at least 2 will still ha=
ve an engine.=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com";>noblepa@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that wa=
s a few years=C2=A0ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries =
have improved.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation=
.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasol=
ine and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline e=
ngine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the opposit=
e direction (replacing a gas engine
with electric), these were not production vehicles. All the ones I've =
seen have simply replaced the gas engine with an electric motor, while reta=
ining the transmission, clutch and differential. This is not optimal.=C2=A0=
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Hond=
a Civic and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got a=
round 40 mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k m=
ore than the gas version, the payback
period was many years.</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, =
because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to G=
M, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. Seco=
ndly, it costs a LOT of money to
start a car company from the ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John D=
eLorean. It may also be that Elon Musk made a conscious decision to positio=
n the Tesla in an upscale market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high=
price is not a hindrance, but the
primary attraction.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and m=
ore vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices =
will come down.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Ga=
s vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become.=
Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical i=
mprovements that must be made, but all
that will happen. One area that I suspect gas vehicles can never compete w=
ith electric vehicles is emissions. Gas cars will never reach zero emission=
s. EVs are already there.</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font col=
or=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>Fro=
m:</b> Paul Root <<a href=3D"mailto:ptroot@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">=
ptroot@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Noble <<a href=3D"mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com"; target=3D"=
_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@=
googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG =
Sports Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa=C2=A0Model =
3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And,=
of course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look.=C2=A0
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first h=
it on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:noblepa@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>> wr=
ote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybri=
d cars.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problema=
tic, both in mining it and disposing of it.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, saf=
est and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline =
will take a car farther than a fully charged battery will.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot =
heavier.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard =
that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing =
them costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider =
a used Prius, unless the seller showed me receipts for
a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or Tesla for that matter) with=
out batteries is like a conventional car without an engine. It might be a g=
ood deal, but you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries or =
engine.</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615append=
onsend"></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of hours=
, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully electr=
ic vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop every four=
hours for a two hour recharge.
They could probably speed up the charging process but that would require m=
uch higher voltages or current flow, both of which can be dangerous and cre=
ate heat dissipation problems.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to=
cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through t=
he main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for t=
his now, but this remains a problem.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. No=
one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations unti=
l there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant=
to buy an EV because there are
not many public charging stations. That is why one of the features of the =
proposed infrastructure bill now being debated in Congress includes funding=
to build charging stations.</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615divRpl=
yFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB =
<<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; target=3D"_blank">mg-mga=
-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Dillner <<a href=3D"mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>>; Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D"mailto=
:dan.dibiase@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> PaulBHunt73 <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbhunt73@gmail.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">paulbhunt73@gmail.com</a>>; mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-=
mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Spor=
ts Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:"times new roman","new york",=
times,serif;font-size:16px">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argum=
ent but feel I am missing something.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla =
S. Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both.=C2=A0 Pretty simi=
lar.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Presuming the cars mission is the same.=C2=A0 Build qualit=
y similar, tire usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did so=
me comparisons.=C2=A0 Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the M=
asda6's 600 mile per tank range.=C2=A0 =C2=A0My bladder
needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I =
got this from Tesla) would run $8,800.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10=
- $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.=
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,0=
00 dollars ahead.=C2=A0 I am negating resale.=C2=A0 A 100,000 Mazda6 is nic=
ely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy.=
=C2=A0 I just do not know.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,=
000 miles would be nearly impossible.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between=
and charging non-existent.=C2=A0 One hotel out of 13 had charging stations=
.=C2=A0 Rapid charging hurts battery life.=C2=A0 Standing around for a half=
hour a couple of times a day could get old.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I think the European model of changeable battery packs is =
what will win.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into=
a system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with =
a fresh battery.=C2=A0 Changed from below.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Automatically changed.=C2=A0 SUVs might=C2=A0 have two bat=
teries.=C2=A0 Trucks might have more.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of =
needed packs would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you kne=
w you would have a battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze e=
very last drop out of yours.=C2=A0 You'd pay
a charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left. So if you=
wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just swap the half used bat=
tery.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare fo=
r the same model to be built in order as the robots don't care.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough =
spigots is tough to see until many years from now.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just r=
ent a car for trips, but the current model works for me.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705=
/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/" re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: =
Race of the Centuries</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydpf=
9e5fe71enhancr_card_8017187199" style=3D"max-width:400px;font-family:YahooS=
ans,"Helvetica Neue","Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-se=
rif">
<a style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)" href=3D"https://www.cara=
nddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-rac=
e-of-the-centuries-feature/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
<table style=3D"max-width:400px" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"400">
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-styl=
e:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233);border-radius:2px" border=3D"0" cells=
pacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td height=3D"175" valign=3D"top" style=3D"background-color:rgb(0,0,0);back=
ground-size:cover;border-radius:2px 2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" bgcolor=
=3D"#000000">
<table style=3D"width:100%" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"background-color:transparent;border-radius:2px =
2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" bgcolor=3D"transparent">
<table height=3D"175" style=3D"width:100%;min-height:175px" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"text-align:left;padding:15px 0px 0px 15px;vertical-align:top">=
</td>
<td style=3D"text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"=
>
<div></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<table align=3D"center" style=3D"background:rgb(255,255,255);width:100%;max=
-width:400px;border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px;border-top:1px solid rgb(224,228=
,233)" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);padding:16px 0px 16px 12px;v=
ertical-align:top;border-radius:0px 0px 0px 2px">
</td>
<td style=3D"vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;fo=
nt-family:YahooSans,"Helvetica Neue","Segoe UI",Helveti=
ca,Arial,sans-serif;border-radius:0px 0px 2px">
<h2 style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-family=
:YahooSans,"Helvetica Neue","Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);max-width:314px">
1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries</h2>
<p style=3D"font-size:12px;line-height:16px;margin:0px;color:rgb(151,155,16=
7)">We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pio=
neer can outrun its predecessor.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses <a href=3D"mail=
to:pcresch@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">
pcresch@yahoo.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:resch@reschonline.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">resch@reschonline.com</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7=
f46dc1ayahoo_quoted_8717513317">
<div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D=
"mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7=
f46dc1ayiv7836723387">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, there are 7000-something individual=C2=A0cells bundle=
d into about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77k=
Wh battery).
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Dan D</div>
<div>Central NJ USA<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/"; rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a></=
div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7=
f46dc1ayiv7836723387yqt18265">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <<a href=
=3D"mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"=
_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla wreck=
where the battery pack tore apart?=C2=A0 There were thousands of little su=
b-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.=C2=A0 Somehow I n=
ever dreamed that those power packs were made
up of cells all linked together.=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7=
f46dc1ayiv7836723387gmail-m_1494527823292593023appendonsend">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7=
f46dc1ayiv7836723387gmail-m_1494527823292593023divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11p=
t"><b>From:</b>
<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"re=
ct" target=3D"_blank">
mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegrou=
ps.com" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@google=
groups.com</a>> on behalf of PaulBHunt73 <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbhunt=
73@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">paulbhunt73=
@gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow=
" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect" target=3D"_blank">MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div><font size=3D"2">Each to their own.=C2=A0 I can't see myself=C2=A0=
ever buying an EV based on the current range and recharging situation where=
they are little more than toys for local journeys.=C2=A0 I</font><font siz=
e=3D"2">f=C2=A0I get to the point when I'm still around and
driving but=C2=A0run out of satisfactory used=C2=A0'real' cars=C2=
=A0to buy then I shall revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did bef=
ore.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padd=
ing-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font=
-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Ba=
sed on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider an=
ything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to =
buy another internal combustion vehicle
for my daily use.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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a>.<br>
</blockquote></div>
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