--===============3050381044215538611==
--0000000000005cc25205bf556ab8
Interesting stuff, thanks Dan. I didn't know prices, but thought the Model
X was more.
One of the things in Minnesota, actually, Xcel Energy, is that if you get a
240v charger put in, they put it on a separate meter, and you get big
discounts, for charging off peak (maybe after midnight, I don't remember
details).
I did see somewhere that Tesla is working on a heat pump instead of just
using electricity to heat the cabin. That's something needed around here.
On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM Dan DiBiase <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:
> A lot to unpack with all of these messages.....!
>
> I am probably the only one here that has an electric vehicle, so guess I
> should chime in. If you like, you can check out my blog at
> https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2021/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-report.html
>
> I have the Tesla Model Y, which is the latest model, being a CUV version
> of the Model 3 sedan (about 75% interchangeability). The version I have is
> the AWD Long Range. The only options I got was the color (Deep Metallic
> Blue) and a tow hitch (mainly for a bike rack). It was $53k out the door
> (no sales tax in NJ for BEV's). If I had taken delivery in December of
> 2020, I could have gotten a $5k rebate from the state. If I waited until
> after 7/1/21, there is a chance I could have gotten a $5k point-of-sale
> discount from the state of NJ (funding still TBD). And there is talk of
> renewing the $7500 Federal Tax Credit for all made-in-US BEV's, which would
> include Tesla and Chevy (both of whom have sold over 200k electric vehicles
> so they currently don't qualify). I took delivery one month ago, because I
> wanted the car and was tired of waiting for 'maybes' and 'what ifs'. Saving
> the 6.625% sales tax was good enough for me.
>
> The battery warranty on my car is 8 years/120k miles. The EPA rated range
> is 326 miles; real world is more like 280 - 290 depending on conditions
> (speed, temperature, elevation changes, etc). The entire battery is
> unlikely to go bad at once. Individual modules can be replaced (there are
> about 15 in my car). Elon Musk has estimated the cost at about $5k to
> replace a module - that is today's cost. Battery replacement in it's
> entirety is around $15k currently.
>
> The Tesla replaced my 2014 Mazda CX-5 CUV, which had 147k miles on it. It
> still ran well but was getting to the point where stuff was going to start
> going wrong and I have to be able to depend on my car. An electric car fits
> my needs perfectly. I'm a realtor so generally drive locally only, have no
> daily commute and need a large enough space for signs and misc crap. I've
> liked Teslas since the Roadster came out in 2008 and have owned the stock
> for a number of years.
>
> You can read my first blog post to see in detail why I wanted an electric
> car - I do think we need to do a better job reducing greenhouse gases
> individually and our energy system is going to become more renewables-based
> as the years go by. Being a 'car guy', electric power is the next wave of
> technology and is here to stay - the Tesla is essentially a computer that
> also happens to be a very capable car. And the acceleration is insane for a
> 4500 lb vehicle. My model does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. The Performance version
> of the MY is 4.2 secs. The new Model S Plaid will be under 2 seconds with
> 400+ miles of range.... Pretty stellar numbers. for a sedan that can hold 5
> people.....
>
> I have a 240v charger in my garage that cost $800 to install (mostly
> because the electrician had to run the wire 45 ft from my panel to the
> garage). It adds about 25 miles of range for every hour. I charge overnight
> with off-peak rates (about half of peak rates). I've only had the car a
> month so haven't gotten a bill yet to see how much it is actually costing
> me. Travelling shouldn't be too difficult as Tesla has a Supercharger
> network of charger that cover about 90% of the US - about every 120 miles
> or so on the OInterstates, of plenty of locations off them as well. There
> is one 10 minutes from my house. I charge to a max of 80% every night.
> Tesla advises keeping the charge levels between 20% - 80% to prolong
> battery life. When I do take a road trip, I will charge to 100% right
> before I leave. Plenty of folks charge to 100% frequently and haven't
> experienced much battery degradation over time. Most reports indicate that
> charging in general is less expensive than buying gas.
>
> Maintenance - obviously, no oil changes. You also get much longer life out
> of brakes as you rarely use them (regenerative braking from the electric
> motors, which put energy back into the battery). No exhaust system. No fuel
> pump. No ignition system. Etc. Tires, you might have to replace more often
> - these are heavy vehicles. There are maintenance items that need to be
> checked but they are the normal things - A/C service, cabin air filters,
> brakes (rarely though). The battery is liquid cooled but there isn't any
> maintenance schedule that I could find. Oh, and you have to put windshield
> washer fluid in it...
>
> I covered a lot and this is probably too long a read - sorry. But just
> wanted to lay out a few basics here, based on my personal experience to
> date.. The Tesla community is a large one - they have over a million
> vehicles on the road now - and growing larger every day. And every new EV
> that is announced is a good thing. Tesla isn't going away. Most of the new
> EV's that are coming out aren't targeted at Tesla but ICE vehicles. That's
> where the real benefit will come from.
>
> Dan D
> Central NJ USA
> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Paul Root <ptroot@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty for most of the US, 10 year
>> 150K for California.
>>
>> The closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric,
>> or the VW Golf E-something.
>>
>> I think Telsa cost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa is
>> really a software company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they
>> will make it as more car companies start building more electric cars.
>> Reports I've seen, is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is
>> not great.
>>
>> I don't buy cars very often, If I buy 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my
>> life, I would bet at least 2 will still have an engine.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that was a
>>> few years ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries have
>>> improved.
>>>
>>> That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation.
>>>
>>> It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasoline
>>> and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline
>>> engine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the
>>> opposite direction (replacing a gas engine with electric), these were not
>>> production vehicles. All the ones I've seen have simply replaced the gas
>>> engine with an electric motor, while retaining the transmission, clutch and
>>> differential. This is not optimal.
>>>
>>> The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Honda Civic
>>> and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got around 40
>>> mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k more than
>>> the gas version, the payback period was many years.
>>>
>>> Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in
>>> part, because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well.
>>> Compared to GM, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production
>>> vehicle. Secondly, it costs a LOT of money to start a car company from the
>>> ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John DeLorean. It may also be that
>>> Elon Musk made a conscious decision to position the Tesla in an upscale
>>> market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high price is not a hindrance,
>>> but the primary attraction.
>>>
>>> As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and
>>> more vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices
>>> will come down.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Gas
>>> vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become.
>>> Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical
>>> improvements that must be made, but all that will happen. One area that I
>>> suspect gas vehicles can never compete with electric vehicles is emissions.
>>> Gas cars will never reach zero emissions. EVs are already there.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Paul Root <ptroot@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM
>>> *To:* Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <
>>> mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG
>>> Sports Car Concept
>>>
>>> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's
>>> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done
>>> youtube videos for them. Worth a look.
>>>
>>> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on
>>> a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <noblepa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars.
>>>
>>> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally
>>> problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it.
>>>
>>> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest
>>> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will
>>> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will.
>>>
>>> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot
>>> heavier.
>>>
>>> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're
>>> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about
>>> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the
>>> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius
>>> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car
>>> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the
>>> cost of replacing the batteries or engine.
>>>
>>> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of
>>> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully
>>> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop
>>> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the
>>> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current
>>> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems.
>>>
>>> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to
>>> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through
>>> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for
>>> this now, but this remains a problem.
>>>
>>> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations.
>>> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations
>>> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are
>>> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations.
>>> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now
>>> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM
>>> *To:* James Dillner <spr1ng19@outlook.com>; Dan DiBiase <
>>> dan.dibiase@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73@gmail.com>; mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>;
>>> MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG
>>> Sports Car Concept
>>>
>>> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I
>>> am missing something.
>>>
>>> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out
>>> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty similar.
>>>
>>> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality similar, tire
>>> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons.
>>> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per
>>> tank range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.
>>>
>>> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from
>>> Tesla) would run $8,800.
>>>
>>> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil
>>> changes the total is about $8,500.
>>>
>>> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.
>>>
>>> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars
>>> ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in..
>>> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy. I just do not know.
>>>
>>> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles
>>> would be nearly impossible.
>>>
>>> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging
>>> non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging stations. Rapid charging
>>> hurts battery life. Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a
>>> day could get old.
>>>
>>> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win.
>>>
>>> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much
>>> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh
>>> battery. Changed from below.
>>>
>>> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries. Trucks might
>>> have more.
>>>
>>> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would
>>> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a
>>> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out
>>> of yours. You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery
>>> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just
>>> swap the half used battery.
>>>
>>> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model
>>> to be built in order as the robots don't care.
>>>
>>> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is
>>> tough to see until many years from now.
>>>
>>> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for
>>> trips, but the current model works for me.
>>>
>>> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:
>>>
>>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
>>> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>>>
>>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
>>>
>>> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer
>>> can outrun its predecessor.
>>>
>>> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch@yahoo.com
>>> resch@reschonline.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <
>>> dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15
>>> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery).
>>>
>>> Dan D
>>> Central NJ USA
>>> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <spr1ng19@outlook.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla
>>> wreck where the battery pack tore apart? There were thousands of little
>>> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place. Somehow I
>>> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked
>>> together.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com <mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com> on
>>> behalf of PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM
>>> *Cc:* mglist <mgs@autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <
>>> MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept
>>>
>>> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the
>>> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys
>>> for local journeys. If I get to the point when I'm still around and
>>> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall
>>> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before.
>>>
>>> PaulH.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-)
>>> Based on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider
>>> anything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to
>>> buy another internal combustion vehicle for my daily use.
>>>
>>> --
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>
--0000000000005cc25205bf556ab8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Interesting stuff, thanks Dan. I didn't know pric=
es, but thought the Model X was more.</div><div><br></div>One of the things=
in Minnesota, actually, Xcel Energy, is that if you get a 240v charger put=
in, they put it on a separate meter, and you get big discounts, for chargi=
ng off peak (maybe after midnight, I don't remember details).=C2=A0<div=
><br></div><div>I did see somewhere that Tesla is working on a heat pump in=
stead of just using electricity to heat the cabin. That's something nee=
ded around=C2=A0here.=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM Dan DiBiase=
<<a href=3D"mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com";>dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>>=
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">A lot to unpack with all of these messages.....!<div><br></div><di=
v>I am probably the only one here that has an electric vehicle, so guess I =
should chime in. If you like, you can check out my blog at=C2=A0<a href=3D"=
https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2021/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-r=
eport.html" target=3D"_blank">https://electricallyspeaking.blogspot.com/202=
1/04/tesla-model-y-one-month-report.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>I hav=
e the Tesla Model Y, which is the latest model, being a CUV version of the =
Model 3 sedan (about 75% interchangeability). The version I have is the AWD=
Long Range. The only options I got was the color (Deep Metallic Blue) and =
a tow hitch (mainly for a bike rack). It was $53k out the door (no sales ta=
x in NJ for BEV's). If I had taken delivery in December of 2020, I coul=
d have gotten a $5k rebate from the state. If I waited until after 7/1/21, =
there is a chance I could have gotten a $5k point-of-sale discount from the=
state of NJ (funding still TBD). And there is talk of renewing the $7500 F=
ederal Tax Credit for all made-in-US BEV's, which would include Tesla a=
nd Chevy (both of whom have sold over 200k electric vehicles so they curren=
tly don't qualify).=C2=A0 I took delivery one month ago, because I want=
ed the car and was tired of waiting for=C2=A0'maybes' and 'what=
ifs'. Saving the 6.625% sales tax was good enough for me.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>The battery warranty on my car is 8 years/120k miles. The EPA =
rated range is 326 miles; real world is more like 280 - 290 depending on co=
nditions (speed, temperature, elevation changes, etc). The entire battery i=
s unlikely to go bad at once. Individual modules can be replaced (there are=
about 15 in my car). Elon Musk has estimated the cost at about $5k to repl=
ace a module - that is today's cost. Battery replacement in it's en=
tirety is around $15k currently.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The Tesla r=
eplaced my 2014 Mazda CX-5 CUV, which had 147k miles on it. It still ran we=
ll but was getting to the point where stuff was going to start going wrong =
and I have to be able to depend on my car. An electric car fits my needs pe=
rfectly. I'm a realtor so generally drive locally only, have no daily c=
ommute and need a large enough space for signs and misc crap. I've like=
d Teslas since the Roadster came out in 2008 and have owned the stock for a=
number of years.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>You can read my first blog=
post to see in detail why I wanted an electric car - I do think we need to=
do a better job reducing greenhouse gases individually and our energy syst=
em is going to become more renewables-based as the years go by. Being a =
9;car guy', electric power is the next wave of technology and is here t=
o stay - the Tesla is essentially a computer that also happens to be a very=
capable=C2=A0car. And the acceleration is insane for a 4500 lb vehicle. My=
model does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. The Performance version of the MY is 4.2 s=
ecs. The new Model S Plaid will be under 2 seconds with 400+ miles of range=
.... Pretty stellar numbers. for a sedan that can hold 5 people.....</div><=
div><br></div><div>I have a 240v charger in my garage that cost $800 to ins=
tall (mostly because the electrician had to run the wire 45 ft from my pane=
l to the garage). It adds about 25 miles of range for every hour. I charge =
overnight with off-peak rates (about half of peak rates). I've only had=
the car a month so haven't gotten a bill yet to see how much it is act=
ually costing me. Travelling shouldn't be too difficult as Tesla has a =
Supercharger network of charger that cover about 90% of the US - about ever=
y 120 miles or so on the OInterstates, of plenty of locations off them as w=
ell. There is one 10=C2=A0 minutes from my house. I charge to a max of 80% =
every night. Tesla advises keeping the charge levels between 20% - 80% to p=
rolong battery life. When I do take a road trip, I will charge to 100% righ=
t before I leave. Plenty of folks charge to 100% frequently and haven't=
experienced much battery degradation over time. Most reports indicate that=
charging in general is less expensive than buying gas.=C2=A0</div><div><br=
></div><div>Maintenance - obviously, no oil changes. You also get much long=
er life out of brakes as you rarely use them (regenerative braking from the=
electric motors, which put energy back into the battery). No exhaust syste=
m. No fuel pump. No ignition system. Etc. Tires, you might have to replace =
more often - these are heavy vehicles. There are maintenance items that nee=
d to be checked but they are the normal things - A/C service, cabin air fil=
ters, brakes (rarely though). The battery is liquid cooled but there isn=
9;t any maintenance schedule that I could find. Oh, and you have to put win=
dshield washer fluid in it...</div><div><br></div><div>I covered a lot and =
this is probably too long a read - sorry. But just wanted to lay out a few =
basics here,=C2=A0based on my personal experience to date.. The Tesla commu=
nity is a large one - they have over a million vehicles on the road now - a=
nd growing larger every day. And every new EV that is announced is a good t=
hing. Tesla isn't going away. Most of the new EV's that are coming =
out aren't targeted at Tesla but ICE vehicles. That's where the rea=
l benefit will come from.</div><div><br></div><div>Dan D</div><div>Central =
NJ USA<br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"h=
ttp://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://dandibiase.cbinto=
uch.com/</a></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:31 PM Paul=
Root <<a href=3D"mailto:ptroot@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ptroot@gmai=
l.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">The references I saw was 8 year 100k warranty=C2=A0fo=
r most of the US, 10 year 150K for California.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>The=
closest apples to apples that I see would be the Ford Focus electric, or t=
he VW Golf E-something.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I think Telsa=C2=A0c=
ost so much because they are luxury cars. Also, Telsa=C2=A0is really a soft=
ware company, not a car company. I'm still not convinced they will make=
it as more car companies start building more electric cars. Reports I'=
ve seen,=C2=A0is that build quality for the Model 3, especially, is not gre=
at.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I don't buy cars very often, If I bu=
y 4 more cars (daily drivers) in my life, I would bet at least 2 will still=
have an engine.=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 3:06 PM Paul Noble <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">noblepa@hotmail.c=
om</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>When I said I had heard that batteries only lasted 50k miles, that wa=
s a few years=C2=A0ago. Perhaps I was misinformed or perhaps the batteries =
have improved.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>That said, I am still not convinced of the economics of the situation=
.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>It is difficult to make any kind of direct comparison between a gasol=
ine and an electric car. No one has, to my knowledge, ever put a gasoline e=
ngine in a Tesla. And while there have been many conversions in the opposit=
e direction (replacing a gas engine
with electric), these were not production vehicles. All the ones I've =
seen have simply replaced the gas engine with an electric motor, while reta=
ining the transmission, clutch and differential. This is not optimal.=C2=A0=
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The closest comparison I've ever seen was between a gasoline Hond=
a Civic and the hybrid version of the same car. IIRC, the gas version got a=
round 40 mpg, while the hybrid got 45. Given that the hybrid was over $3k m=
ore than the gas version, the payback
period was many years.</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Why does a Tesla cost so much? Who knows. It is almost certainly, in part, =
because it is electric. But there are other factors, as well. Compared to G=
M, Honda and Toyota, the Tesla is a pretty limited production vehicle. Seco=
ndly, it costs a LOT of money to
start a car company from the ground up. Just ask Malcom Bricklin or John D=
eLorean. It may also be that Elon Musk made a conscious decision to positio=
n the Tesla in an upscale market for luxury cars. For some buyers, the high=
price is not a hindrance, but the
primary attraction.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
As far as EVs go, we're still in the early-adopter stage. As more and m=
ore vehicles become available, the economics will stabilize and the prices =
will come down.=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
I'm guessing that in twenty years, maybe less, EVs will be the norm. Ga=
s vehicles will be a niche product, sort of like vinyl records have become.=
Right now, there are teething pains that must be overcome, and technical i=
mprovements that must be made, but all
that will happen. One area that I suspect gas vehicles can never compete w=
ith electric vehicles is emissions. Gas cars will never reach zero emission=
s. EVs are already there.</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Paul Root &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:ptroot@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ptroot@gmail.com</a=
>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Noble <<a href=3D"mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com"; target=3D"=
_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blan=
k">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@=
googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG =
Sports Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa=C2=A0Model =
3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And,=
of course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look.=C2=A0
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first h=
it on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:noblepa@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>> wr=
ote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybri=
d cars.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problema=
tic, both in mining it and disposing of it.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, saf=
est and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline =
will take a car farther than a fully charged battery will.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot =
heavier.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<span>I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard =
that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing =
them costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider =
a used Prius, unless the seller showed me receipts for
a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or Tesla for that matter) with=
out batteries is like a conventional car without an engine. It might be a g=
ood deal, but you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries or =
engine.</span></div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615appendonsend"></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of hours=
, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully electr=
ic vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop every four=
hours for a two hour recharge.
They could probably speed up the charging process but that would require m=
uch higher voltages or current flow, both of which can be dangerous and cre=
ate heat dissipation problems.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to=
cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through t=
he main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for t=
his now, but this remains a problem.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:12pt">
Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations. No=
one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations unti=
l there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant=
to buy an EV because there are
not many public charging stations. That is why one of the features of the =
proposed infrastructure bill now being debated in Congress includes funding=
to build charging stations.</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">=
<font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11p=
t"><b>From:</b> 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <<a href=3D"mailto=
:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com=
</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Dillner <<a href=3D"mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>>; Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D"mailto=
:dan.dibiase@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> PaulBHunt73 <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbhunt73@gmail.com"; target=
=3D"_blank">paulbhunt73@gmail.com</a>>; mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs=
@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-=
mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Spor=
ts Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:"times new roman","new york",=
times,serif;font-size:16px">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argum=
ent but feel I am missing something.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla =
S. Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both.=C2=A0 Pretty simi=
lar.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Presuming the cars mission is the same.=C2=A0 Build qualit=
y similar, tire usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did so=
me comparisons.=C2=A0 Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the M=
asda6's 600 mile per tank range.=C2=A0 =C2=A0My bladder
needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I =
got this from Tesla) would run $8,800.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10=
- $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.=
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,0=
00 dollars ahead.=C2=A0 I am negating resale.=C2=A0 A 100,000 Mazda6 is nic=
ely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy.=
=C2=A0 I just do not know.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,=
000 miles would be nearly impossible.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between=
and charging non-existent.=C2=A0 One hotel out of 13 had charging stations=
.=C2=A0 Rapid charging hurts battery life.=C2=A0 Standing around for a half=
hour a couple of times a day could get old.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I think the European model of changeable battery packs is =
what will win.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into=
a system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with =
a fresh battery.=C2=A0 Changed from below.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Automatically changed.=C2=A0 SUVs might=C2=A0 have two bat=
teries.=C2=A0 Trucks might have more.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of =
needed packs would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you kne=
w you would have a battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze e=
very last drop out of yours.=C2=A0 You'd pay
a charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left. So if you=
wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just swap the half used bat=
tery.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare fo=
r the same model to be built in order as the robots don't care.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough =
spigots is tough to see until many years from now.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just r=
ent a car for trips, but the current model works for me.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705=
/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/" re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: =
Race of the Centuries</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydpf9e5fe71enhancr_card_8=
017187199" style=3D"max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans,"Helvetica N=
eue","Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
<a style=3D"text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)" href=3D"https://www.cara=
nddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-rac=
e-of-the-centuries-feature/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
<table style=3D"max-width:400px" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"400">
<table width=3D"100%" style=3D"max-width:400px;border-width:1px;border-styl=
e:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233);border-radius:2px" border=3D"0" cells=
pacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td height=3D"175" valign=3D"top" style=3D"background-color:rgb(0,0,0);back=
ground-size:cover;border-radius:2px 2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" bgcolor=
=3D"#000000">
<table style=3D"width:100%" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0=
">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top" style=3D"background-color:transparent;border-radius:2px =
2px 0px 0px;min-height:175px" bgcolor=3D"transparent">
<table height=3D"175" style=3D"width:100%;min-height:175px" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"text-align:left;padding:15px 0px 0px 15px;vertical-align:top">=
</td>
<td style=3D"text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"=
>
<div></div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<table align=3D"center" style=3D"background:rgb(255,255,255);width:100%;max=
-width:400px;border-radius:0px 0px 2px 2px;border-top:1px solid rgb(224,228=
,233)" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);padding:16px 0px 16px 12px;v=
ertical-align:top;border-radius:0px 0px 0px 2px">
</td>
<td style=3D"vertical-align:middle;padding:12px 24px 16px 12px;width:99%;fo=
nt-family:YahooSans,"Helvetica Neue","Segoe UI",Helveti=
ca,Arial,sans-serif;border-radius:0px 0px 2px">
<h2 style=3D"font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-family=
:YahooSans,"Helvetica Neue","Segoe UI",Helvetica,Arial,=
sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42);max-width:314px">
1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries</h2>
<p style=3D"font-size:12px;line-height:16px;margin:0px;color:rgb(151,155,16=
7)">We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pio=
neer can outrun its predecessor.</p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses <a href=3D"mail=
to:pcresch@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">
pcresch@yahoo.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:resch@reschonline.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">resch@reschonline.com</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayahoo_quoted_8=
717513317">
<div style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <<a href=3D=
"mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:
</div>
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<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387"=
>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Yes, there are 7000-something individual=C2=A0cells bundle=
d into about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77k=
Wh battery).
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Dan D</div>
<div>Central NJ USA<br clear=3D"all">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/"; rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a></=
div>
</div>
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<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387y=
qt18265">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <<a href=
=3D"mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"=
_blank">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla wreck=
where the battery pack tore apart?=C2=A0 There were thousands of little su=
b-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.=C2=A0 Somehow I n=
ever dreamed that those power packs were made
up of cells all linked together.=C2=A0<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387g=
mail-m_1494527823292593023appendonsend">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt=
;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-3046829417675207276gmail-m_663231247595694235gmail-m_-3=
434465552149103660x_gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387g=
mail-m_1494527823292593023divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr">
<font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" style=3D"font-size:11p=
t"><b>From:</b>
<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"re=
ct" target=3D"_blank">
mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegrou=
ps.com" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">mg-mga-mgb@google=
groups.com</a>> on behalf of PaulBHunt73 <<a href=3D"mailto:paulbhunt=
73@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">paulbhunt73=
@gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> mglist <<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow=
" shape=3D"rect" target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>; MG-MGA-MGB &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D=
"rect" target=3D"_blank">MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com</a>><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div><font size=3D"2">Each to their own.=C2=A0 I can't see myself=C2=A0=
ever buying an EV based on the current range and recharging situation where=
they are little more than toys for local journeys.=C2=A0 I</font><font siz=
e=3D"2">f=C2=A0I get to the point when I'm still around and
driving but=C2=A0run out of satisfactory used=C2=A0'real' cars=C2=
=A0to buy then I shall revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did bef=
ore.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2">PaulH.</font></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padd=
ing-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font=
-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div><font size=3D"2"></font>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Ba=
sed on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider an=
ything with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to =
buy another internal combustion vehicle
for my daily use.</div>
</div>
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