On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Kevin Stevens wrote:
> Why is the burden on me? I don't have a problem with the current rules.
Me either. But I'd rather see claiming rules vs. some "must have OEM
shocks" or other crap. :-)
> I'm only familiar with claiming rules in situations where they are
> intended to prevent cheating. To clarify my objection, as I understand it
> you are not proposing that it be ILLEGAL to run expensive shocks, you're
> just trying to restrict it by making it (potentially) more expensive?
You could look at it that way. Most folks seem to look at it like "its
not worth spending $20k on shocks because Billy Bob will just take 'em for
$2k and I'll be out $18k". Oh, and all the fast guys will no longer be on
mondo expensive shocks anyway, so the motivation to use 'em will dry up as
> Philosophic - social engineering sucks. Trying to modify behavior
> indirectly usually doesn't work as anticipated, and IMHO lowers the
> credibility and ethical bar for everyone. "We're not going to say you
> can't, we're just going to make your life miserable in perverse ways if
> you do."
No, we're just going to make sure that for a reasonable sum your
competitors can get the same tackle you get. So use unobtanium parts if
you want, but don't expect them to stay unobtanium.
> Practical - The National championship competitors are presumably not who
> you are targeting with this initiative, since they're spending truckloads
> of money regardless? You've just made it that much more difficult for
> them to do development at local events, and coincidently to offer the rest
> of us the benefit of their example. They'll simply go off to skidpads or
> non-SCCA events to do their testing, then come to the major events with
> their tuned shocks and bite the bullet if someone claims them. I dislike
> alienating the most committed and active competitors to benefit the less
> committed and active ones.
> For the regional hotshoes, how does this work again? A competitor gets to
> claim my shocks, ok. How do they get delivered, presumably by the next
> event or something? Can't happen then and there, it's totally impossible
> at local events. (Time limits on the lot, non-trailered cars, no
> alignment provisions...) Who adjudicates that they've been paid for, and
> how? Protest committee, I guess. Does everyone now have to keep two sets
> of shocks on hand in case one gets claimed? What about two-day events?
Ok, I talked about all this in previous messages that you must have not
read very throughly because you're knee was jerking all around... :-)
Claiming at a regional level would be completely silly. At a minimum it
should be Divisionals and higher, maybe even Pro/Tour & higher.
In addition, there's absolutely no reason that you couldn't write the
claim rule so that the claimer was responsible for supplying a working set
of shocks/struts so that the vehicle could get home, etc. Similarly, you
get the shocks/struts at the end of the event.
> OEM Corvette parts can take weeks to arrive. What stops me, or anyone
> else, from claiming these hot shocks the next week?
The cost to claim the shocks/struts and the knowledge that they'll
disapear at the next event (and the associated hassle).
> Do we have people scheming to pilfer them just before the big events?
> What happens if more than one person wants them? How do you prevent
> me from sabotaging them before I deliver them?
You likely have all those issues. Usually its either first come first
serve or names in a hat when multiple people want 'em.
> What about the rookie who just showed up for the first time? Can I
> get his super-expensive shocks? Oh, you're going to limit it to just
> claiming winner's shocks? So now I can run hot shocks, but I have to
> sandbag better? No problem...
How many rookie's do you see at Pros/Tours?
> And for either group, you've just created a gold-plated method for
> off-course harrassment of competitors you don't like for whatever reason.
> You've just opened a whole entire can of worms, in an effort to suppress
> an activity that you haven't even defined as illegal! Who, exactly, is
> supposed to be benefiting from this circus? From what I've heard so far,
> it's regional wannabees (like myself) with a profound case of shock envy.
> I refer you to my previous post about the no-cost method of speeding up
> your car - give it to a bona-fide hotshoe to drive.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm in favor of leaving the shock rules the
hell alone. But if you wanna change something, don't dick around with
requiring OE shocks or only one phillips screw adjuster. If you want to
limit cost, the only way I've ever seen it work is with claiming rules.
(btw, I run Kumho's on stock class cars. Why? Because even though
there's plenty of data that the Hoosier's are faster, I don't drive well
enough to take advantage of them consistently and I feel I'll do just as
well on the much cheaper and longer lasting Kumhos. IMHO if you're not
trouncing everyone on the pax locally and winning/trophying at Pros/Tours,
you've got no business having anything more than regular Konis, a bar, a
harness, and some Kumhos.)