Not typically. Depends on what you start with. I've had to make some of
those compromises myself. Also don't forget the safety issue...(re: cage for
both stiffening and safety)...bars (at least) are required for P classes
anyway so you can only mitigate the weight addition if putting a cage in (or
not to).
Chas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Escano, Arnold (MP)" <aescano@guidant.com>
To: "ba-autox" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: RE: Fear and Loathing in AP
> Isn't that a wash-out in competition regarding>>
> chassis stiff/weighs more=chassis flexes/weighs less..IMHO.
>
> arnold
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Cox [mailto:charles@coastalbay.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 6:15 PM
> To: Scot Zediker; ba-autox
> Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing in AP
>
>
> I didn't believe they were going to enforce changing the wheels from 15 -
> 13" that would make anyone already on DP have to buy new wheels and maybe
> brakes...my book says 13 X 7 but sure there was an update at some point
> reverting to the 15 X 7".
>
> 2100 makes sense...didn't think you were that you could be much lighter
than
> that. You're actually then, 75# heavy for DP as a 1.6. Add a roll
bar...40#
> + (required for Prepared...don't remember if you had one or not...) and
> you're already 115# heavy. Gut the car you can get the weight out and I
can
> see how you ultimately would have to ballast the car...an M2/NB (post
1999)
> wouldn't need much if any ballast...particularly if caged.
>
> The only internal changes of any significance between CSP and AP is cams
and
> cam timing gears...and possibly (some) porting but not as significant as
you
> might think for an autocross motor where you don't want massive overlap,
> needing bottom end and a broad torque and power band. For road racing,
> that's different where they are getting 220-240 HP Naturally Aspirated but
> only at between 7500-9000 rpm...doesn't work as well for autocrossing.
Fuel
> injection is not required to be "Stock" but original, so extensive
> modifications are allowed and why the differences are not as much as you
> might think. Even the road racers are using it (original fuel injection)
and
> making massive horsepower...so I really don't think there is much to be
> gained of substance between the two...and you don't have to run the stock
> ECU either...no one does or can at a competitive level.
>
> I knew there must have been one car...I'd really like to see it but still
> suspect it from a structural standpoint unless fully caged (don't know the
> car so might be). Realize that it is a '90 chassis which weigh something
> like 150-250# (maybe more) less than later cars...not insignificant and in
> building a car one owns, means you'd have to buy an early car to make it
to
> the light weight. Not sure about you, but if to meet the minimum weight
> means having to buy an earlier chassis to do it, that to me falls well out
> of bounds of being "reasonable" in the ability to meet the minimum weight
> (AP).
>
> Chas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scot Zediker" <roadsterboy@earthlink.net>
> To: "ba-autox" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing in AP
>
>
> > I had heard that they were keeping 15" wheels for DP, but I was just
going
> > by what my rulebook said. By "induction" I meant carburetion/fuel
> > injection. And in case anyone here missed it, in my original message FI
> > stands for fuel injection, not forced induction. And I was referring to
> DP
> > minimum weights, not AP (my car weighs around 2100 lb in autox trim
> > presently, so I'd have to ADD weight if I put in a 1.8L engine and went
> into
> > DP).
> >
> > While an IRTB setup might not gain much on a CSP legal engine, it
probably
> > helps quite a bit on an AP motor, where you can make major internal
> changes.
> > And for a DP car, when they say "stock fuel injection" they pretty much
> mean
> > stock. Stock manifold, stock throttle body, stock ECU too if I'm not
> > mistaken.
> >
> > But the lightest Miata I know of is the Whitney car. IIRC, it began
life
> as
> > a '90 and Stan once said it weighed about 1740 without ballast. In
other
> > words, the minimum for a 1.8L AP car, give or take a bit. Having looked
> it
> > over a couple times, I have no idea what else, if anything, they can
> remove
> > from it.
> >
> > Scot
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