Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in

[Greg Blake via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>]

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Speaking of pattern, Chris mentioned that the Bastuck gear sets are Oerlikon=
 as opposed to Gleason gears. Apparently they require a different mesh patte=
rn. Does anyone have a good resource for pictures of the proper mesh pattern=
 for the Oerlikon type gears?  I can not find one. I contacted Bastuck with n=
o luck there.=20

Thanks.=20

Greg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 12:22 PM, fubog1 via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
> The pattern is everything when setting gears up, if they don't mesh proper=
ly, they're gonna run hot, make noise, and fail.
> There are plenty of photos and illustrations of different patterns on the i=
nternet.
> I mix a little injuneers blue in with lubriplate white grease, paint a hal=
f dozen teeth or so, and wrench the ring back and forth a few times, while h=
olding the pinion flange for extra preload; repeat 3 or 4 times around the r=
ing.
> I use set-up bearings but it's not unusual to have to make fine adjustment=
s once the good bearings are fitted.
> Preload is equally important, I don't use the pinion crush collar either, I=
 fab a solid collar and fit shims; a case spreader is easier to set the carr=
ier in but I've done many without.
> Once you have everything set, you can put a box-end wrench on one of the r=
ing gear bolts and work it back and forth hard and you can feel when the mes=
h is nice and smooth in both directions.
> A couple things to watch for, sometimes the carrier will have runout from w=
arpage when it was welded, you'll never get a correct backlash setting or a g=
ood pattern all the way around, and I often find the carrier bearing inner r=
aces turning on the journal, if not too worn a little loctite is your friend=
 but if that race turns on the carrier it won't live long...
> Glen
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Kramer via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> To: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
> Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 8:57 am
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in
>=20
> I would add that if you buy the same brand bearing you can grind out the I=
D of the old races to make it easier to remove them for test assemblies.
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com> wrote:
> On 9/10/2018 3:41 PM, Bob Kramer via Fot wrote:
> I can't answer that but one could measure the dimension of the pinion head=
 and subtract it from the total shown to get the depth you would want.=20
>=20
> Bob Kramer
>=20
> I suspect that there are variations in parts due to manufacturing errors, t=
olerances stacking up, etc.  Most of the parts made at the time were not sub=
ject to the sort of scrutiny and computer-controlled measurements that are c=
ommon today (although even that isn't a guarantee of uniformity--I had to re=
do a bunch of Toyota Supra IRS diffs in the early `80s because the computer t=
hat assembled them was misprogrammed and it swapped the shim stacks for the c=
arrier bearings left to right).
>=20
> That said, the safest way to get the diff repaired properly is attention t=
o the shims when disassembling, and then putting the shims back in the same t=
hicknesses and checking for the proper engagement pattern.  It does require s=
ome educated guesswork, and, often, disassembling and assembling a couple of=
 times, but, if the pattern is right, the diff will be reliable.  I'd also r=
ecommend using hard shims in place of crush spacers on the pinion whenever p=
ossible if the pinion originally used those.  It also is a bit easier if one=
 uses the case spreader judiciously on those housings requiring same, and do=
esn't crank it up too much.  Spread the case just enough to get the carrier a=
nd bearings out.  Figuring out the shim packs will be easier.
>=20
>=20
> Cheers. =20
>  --=20
>=20
>=20
> Michael Porter
> Roswell, NM
>=20
>=20
> Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distanc=
e....
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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om
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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icloud.com
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; 
charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Speaking of pattern, Chris mentioned 
that the Bastuck gear sets are&nbsp;<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 
255, 255, 0);">Oerlikon as opposed to Gleason gears. Apparently they require a 
different mesh pattern. Does anyone have a good resource for pictures of the 
proper mesh pattern for the&nbsp;Oerlikon type gears? &nbsp;I can not find one. 
I contacted Bastuck with no luck 
there.&nbsp;</span><div><br></div><div>Thanks.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Greg<br><br><div
 id="AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Sep 12, 2018, at 
12:22 PM, fubog1 via Fot &lt;<a 
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt; 
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font color="black" size="2" 
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">

<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_0ef1842b-a91c-4583-a1b1-489a8d2c7f0d">
<font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="black">

<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">


<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_3c5bcc87-bb0b-436d-ac40-3730f0a9151a">
<font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color="black">


<div> <font size="2">The pattern is everything when setting gears up, if they 
don't mesh properly, they're gonna run hot, make noise, and fail.</font></div>



<div><font size="2">There are plenty of photos and illustrations of different 
patterns on the internet.</font></div>



<div><font size="2">I mix a little injuneers blue in with lubriplate white 
grease, paint a half dozen teeth or so, and wrench the ring back and forth a 
few times, while holding the pinion flange for extra preload; repeat 3 or 4 
times around the ring.<br>

</font></div>





<div><font size="2">I use set-up bearings but it's not unusual to have to make 
fine adjustments once the good bearings are fitted.</font></div>





<div><font size="2">Preload is equally important, I don't use the pinion crush 
collar either, I fab a solid collar and fit shims; a case spreader is easier to 
set the carrier in but I've done many without.</font></div>





<div><font size="2">Once you have everything set, you can put a box-end wrench 
on one of the ring gear bolts and work it back and forth hard and you can feel 
when the mesh is nice and smooth in both directions.</font></div>





<div><font size="2">A couple things to watch for, sometimes the carrier will 
have runout from warpage when it was welded, you'll never get a correct 
backlash setting or a good pattern all the way around, and I often find the 
carrier bearing inner races turning on the journal, if not too worn a little 
loctite is your friend but if that race turns on the carrier it won't live 
long...</font></div>



<div><font size="2">Glen<br>


</font></div>





<div> <br>


</div>





<div 
style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original 
Message-----<br>


From: Bob Kramer via Fot &lt;<a 
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>


To: Michael Porter &lt;<a 
href="mailto:mdporter@dfn.com";>mdporter@dfn.com</a>&gt;<br>


Cc: Triumph 'Friends of Triumph &lt;<a 
href="mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>


Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 8:57 am<br>


Subject: Re: [Fot] Fwd: Crown and pinion gear break in<br>


<br>






<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_69f3ee0f-771d-4796-bddc-148817a98a67">



<div class="aolReplacedBody">


<div dir="ltr">I would add that if you buy the same brand bearing you can grind 
out the ID of the old races to make it easier to remove them for test 
assemblies.</div>





<div class="aolmail_gmail_extra"><br clear="all">


<div>


<div class="aolmail_gmail_signature">


<div dir="ltr">Bob Kramer</div>


</div>


</div>



<br>





<div class="aolmail_gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM, Michael 
Porter <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" 
href="mailto:mdporter@dfn.com";>mdporter@dfn.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class="aolmail_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  


<div>
    


<div class="aolmail_m_4645890251388782201moz-cite-prefix">On 9/10/2018 3:41 PM, 
Bob Kramer via
      Fot wrote:<br>



    </div>



    <blockquote>
      
      


<div dir="ltr">I can't answer that but one could measure the
        dimension of the pinion head and subtract it from the total
        shown to get the depth you would want.&nbsp;</div>



      


<div class="aolmail_gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
        


<div>
          


<div class="aolmail_m_4645890251388782201gmail_signature">
            


<div dir="ltr">Bob Kramer</div>



          </div>



        </div>



      </div>



    </blockquote>
    <br>



    I suspect that there are variations in parts due to manufacturing
    errors, tolerances stacking up, etc.&nbsp; Most of the parts made at the
    time were not subject to the sort of scrutiny and
    computer-controlled measurements that are common today (although
    even that isn't a guarantee of uniformity--I had to redo a bunch of
    Toyota Supra IRS diffs in the early `80s because the computer that
    assembled them was misprogrammed and it swapped the shim stacks for
    the carrier bearings left to right).<br>



    <br>



    That said, the safest way to get the diff repaired properly is
    attention to the shims when disassembling, and then putting the
    shims back in the same thicknesses and checking for the proper
    engagement pattern.&nbsp; It does require some educated guesswork, and,
    often, disassembling and assembling a couple of times, but, if the
    pattern is right, the diff will be reliable.&nbsp; I'd also recommend
    using hard shims in place of crush spacers on the pinion whenever
    possible if the pinion originally used those.&nbsp; It also is a bit
    easier if one uses the case spreader judiciously on those housings
    requiring same, and doesn't crank it up too much.&nbsp; Spread the case
    just enough to get the carrier and bearings out.&nbsp; Figuring out the
    shim packs will be easier.<br>



    <br>



    <br>



    Cheers.&nbsp; <br>


<span class="aolmail_HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
    <pre class="aolmail_m_4645890251388782201moz-signature">-- 


Michael Porter
Roswell, NM


Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking 
distance....</pre>
  </font></span></div>




</blockquote></div>


<br>


</div>



</div>



</div>



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