--===============0665914832368170822==
--001a11c34270b0fb420510a6674c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With all due respect Kees,
Believe me replacing the bearing(s) and seal in a water pump of this type
is far from as simple as you "imagine"...
First the bearing ID and OD are such that no available ball bearing
(required to absorb end thrust) is available.
The original cartridge bearing uses the hardened shaft itself as the inner
bearing race to produce a bearing small enough to fit in yet provide
sufficient diameter for the pump shaft.
Obviously a needle bearing would fit in but such bearings will not
accommodate end thrust so would be useless in this application.
The original cartridge bearings actually had a hole in the outer race to
allow them to be lubricated in place but as is is so easy to inject too
much grease and by so doing dislodge the end seals of the bearings the
current practice is to make such bearings "sealed for life" such as in
modern water pumps and alternators.
Additionally the "seal" is not a typical "lip" oil seal. It is in fact a
combination bellows and carbon plate style seal the carbon of which runs on
the face of the impellor and must be capable of preventing cooling system
pressure from forcing coolant past the seal without rapidly wearing away.
As I keep saying; these components were developed over decades of trial and
error with the hundreds of thousands of examples produced serving an
exacting and rigorous "test bed". Anyone who thinks that they can do
better than the engineers of the day without a substantial investment of
both money and time is dreamin"..
Michael S
BN1 #174
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Oudesluys <coudesluijs@chello.nl> wrote:
> I would imagine that if you have access to a lathe it should not be to
> difficult to make up a shaft that will fit a sealed needle/roller bearing
> (pulley side) and a ball bearing (vane side) if both vane and pulley are =
in
> serviceable condition. The seal is not really difficult to replace even
> when the outside diameter is a bit smaller one can always fit a thin wall
> bush.
> You can even fit a grease nipple in the pump housing between the two
> bearings but you have to remove the bearing seals on the inside. I did so
> on a water pump of a daily driver Jensen Healey in the late 70's. The
> internal diameter of the needle bearing ring was slightly smaller than th=
e
> internal diameter of the pulley so I had to make an extra bush to press o=
n
> the shaft on which I could press the pulley, but it all worked well and
> lasted until the car was taken of the road about 60.000mls later.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
>
> Alex schreef op 6-3-2015 om 0:00:
>
> *My original 1967 Healey 3000 had a grease nipple on the pump.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *=3D=3D Alex in Maine "The Blue Mainie," 1960 Austin Healey 3000 BT7
> "Conkling," 1946 M.G. TC #1321 Former owner 1957 A-H 100-6, 1967 A-H
> BJ8, 1965 MG Midget =E2=80=B9(=E2=80=A2=C2=BF=E2=80=A2)=E2=80=BA =
http://ai2q.org/ <http://ai2q.org/>*
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* JOHN BAHE SR <johnbahesr@gmail.com>
> *To:* Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 05, 2015 5:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>
> Michael,
>
> When I purchased my 1966 BJ8 it came with an extra water pump that I was
> told was an original pump that had been rebuilt, I assume your rebuild
> kits are for an original pump but I am not sure how to tell an original
> 1966 BJ8 pump. The extra pump I have is cast iron but does not have the
> opening that shows the copper wire bearing retainer. The only number on
> the pump is by the outlet and is 170836. Any help identifying an origina=
l
> would be appreciated. Thanks for your time !!
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Fred,
>> The Massey-Ferguson engine is a derivation of the TR4 wet sleeve 4
>> cylinder; or perhaps the other way around :-).
>> From memory the seal is the same as the later BJ7/8 pump but as I
>> recall although the bearing shaft is the same length and diameter and th=
e
>> OD of the outer is the same the overall length of the outer is shorter a=
nd
>> the races are closer together. I have a box of them somewhere back in
>> Canada.
>> I think that is the bearing that has been used in the currently availabl=
e
>> repro pump..
>> I would imagine that it could be used made to work in an original
>> BJ7/8 pump but it is not designed for that application and the loads on =
the
>> bearings would be substantially increased as a result of the races being
>> closer together.
>>
>> Michael S
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Fred Wescoe <fredwescoe@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago, a water pump builder rebuilt my BJ7 water pump and said
>>> the internals were the same as a Massey Ferguson tractor.
>>>
>>> Fred
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink@msn.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand that most of the Brits of the era shared some parts
>>>> with tractors, Triumph especially. For that reason it's possible to cr=
oss
>>>> reference water pump repair kits in some instances and source them fro=
m
>>>> Tractor Supply stores. It would be interesting to know if this is true=
for
>>>> the Austin 4s and 6s.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lawrence
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> From: jmsdarch@sbcglobal.net
>>>> To: healeys@autox.team.net
>>>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 09:18:24 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>>>>
>>>> Some parts, like the impeller seal, are hard to get if you can find
>>>> them at all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of =
*Adventure
>>>> Limousine
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2015 6:16 AM
>>>> *To:* Magnus Karlsson
>>>> *Cc:* Healey Lista
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Water Pump
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all of this talk about water pump quality, has anyone considered
>>>> rebuilding the original pump with new bearings and seals? Just throwi=
ng
>>>> some gas on this fire.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ Support Team.Net
>>>> http://www.team.net/donate.html Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forum=
s
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>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> John A Bahe Sr.
> Cell: (502) 599-2696
> johnbahesr@gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
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--=20
*If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem.*
--001a11c34270b0fb420510a6674c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sa=
ns ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">With all due respect Kees,<br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-=
size:small">Believe me replacing the bearing(s) and seal in a water pump of=
this type is far from as simple as you "imagine"...<br></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;fon=
t-size:small">First the bearing ID and OD are such that no available ball b=
earing (required to absorb end thrust) is available. <br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:=
small">The original cartridge bearing uses the hardened shaft itself as the=
inner bearing race to produce a bearing small enough to fit in yet provide=
sufficient diameter for the pump shaft.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Obviousl=
y a needle bearing would fit in but such bearings will not accommodate end =
thrust so would be useless in this application. <br></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">=
The original cartridge bearings actually had a hole in the outer race to al=
low them to be lubricated in place but as is is so easy to inject too much =
grease and by so doing dislodge the end seals of the bearings the current p=
ractice is to make such bearings "sealed for life" such as in mod=
ern water pumps and alternators.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Additionally the=
"seal" is not a typical "lip" oil seal. It is in fact =
a combination bellows and carbon plate style seal the carbon of which runs =
on the face of the impellor and must be capable of preventing cooling syste=
m pressure from forcing coolant past the seal without rapidly wearing away.=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small">As I keep saying; these components were develope=
d over decades of trial and error with the hundreds of thousands of example=
s produced serving an exacting and rigorous "test bed".=C2=A0 Any=
one who thinks that they can=C2=A0 do better than the engineers of the day =
without a substantial investment of both money and time is dreamin".. =
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,s=
ans-serif;font-size:small">Michael S<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">BN1 #174 <br=
></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Mar 6, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Oudesluys <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mail=
to:coudesluijs@chello.nl" target=3D"_blank">coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
<div>I would imagine that if you have access
to a lathe it should not be to difficult to make up a shaft that
will fit a sealed needle/roller bearing (pulley side) and a ball
bearing (vane side) if both vane and pulley are in serviceable
condition. The seal is not really difficult to replace even when
the outside diameter is a bit smaller one can always fit a thin
wall bush.<br>
You can even fit a grease nipple in the pump housing between the
two bearings but you have to remove the bearing seals on the
inside. I did so on a water pump of a daily driver Jensen Healey
in the late 70's. The internal diameter of the needle bearing rin=
g
was slightly smaller than the internal diameter of the pulley so I
had to make an extra bush to press on the shaft on which I could
press the pulley, but it all worked well and lasted until the car
was taken of the road about 60.000mls later.<br>
<br>
Kees Oudesluijs<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alex schreef op 6-3-2015 om 0:00:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div class=3D"h5">
=20
=20
<div><strong>My original 1967 Healey 3000 had a grease nipple on
the pump.</strong></div>
<div><strong></strong>=C2=A0</div>
<div><strong>=3D=3D Alex in Maine<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <em>"The Blue Mainie," 1960 Au=
stin Healey 3000 BT7<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "Conkling," 1946 M.G. TC #13=
21<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Former owner 1957 A-H 100-6, 1967 A-H =
BJ8, <br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1965 MG Midget=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=B9(=
=E2=80=A2=C2=BF=E2=80=A2)=E2=80=BA<br>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 </em><a href=3D"http://ai2q.org/"; targ=
et=3D"_blank"><em>http://ai2q.org/</em></a></strong></div>
<div><strong><em></em></strong>=C2=A0</div>
<blockquote dir=3D"ltr">
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div><b>From:</b> <a title=3D"johnbahesr@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:=
johnbahesr@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">JOHN BAHE SR</a> </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"michaelsalter@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto=
:michaelsalter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">Michael Salter</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title=3D"healeys@autox.team.net" href=3D"mailto:=
healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 05, 2015 5:13 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Water Pump</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Michael,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I purchased my 1966 BJ8 it came with an extra=C2=A0wate=
r
pump that I was told was an original pump that had been
rebuilt,=C2=A0 I assume your rebuild kits are for an original
pump but I am not sure how to tell an original 1966 BJ8
pump.=C2=A0 The extra pump I have is cast iron but does not hav=
e
the opening that shows the copper wire bearing retainer.=C2=A0
The only number on the pump is by the outlet and is 170836.=C2=
=A0
Any help identifying an original would be appreciated.=C2=A0
Thanks for your time !!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:54 PM,
Michael Salter <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:michaels=
alter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default">Hi Fred,<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">The Massey-Ferguson engine is
a derivation of the TR4 wet sleeve 4 cylinder; or
perhaps the other way around :-).<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">From memory the seal is the
same as the later BJ7/8 pump but as I recall although
the bearing shaft is the same length and diameter and
the OD of the outer is the same the overall length of
the outer is shorter and the races are closer
together. I have a box of them somewhere back in
Canada.<br>
I think that is the bearing that has been used in the
currently available repro pump..<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">I would imagine that it could
be used made to work in=C2=A0 an original BJ7/8 pump but =
it
is not designed for that application and the loads on
the bearings would be substantially increased as a
result of the races being closer together.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default">Michael S<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:13 AM, Fred
Wescoe <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:fredwe=
scoe@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">fredwescoe@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Years ago, a water pump builder rebuilt
my BJ7 water pump and said the internals
were the same as a Massey Ferguson tractor.<br>
<br>
</div>
Fred<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:37 AM,
WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank">ynotink@msn.com</a>><=
/span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I understand that
most of the Brits of the era
shared some parts with tractors,
Triumph especially. For that
reason it's possible to cross
reference water pump repair kits
in some instances and source them
from Tractor Supply stores. It
would be interesting to know if
this is true for the Austin 4s and
6s.<br>
<br>
Bill Lawrence<br>
<br>
<hr> From: <a href=3D"mailto:jmsdarch=
@sbcglobal.net" target=3D"_blank">jmsdarch@sbcglobal.net</a><br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 09:18:24
-0800<span><br>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Water
Pump<br>
<br>
</span>
<div>
<p><span>Some parts, like the
impeller seal, are hard to
get if you can find them at
all.</span></p>
<p><span></span>=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><b><span>From:</span></b><sp=
an>
Healeys [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@au=
tox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adventu=
re
Limousine<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday,
March 2, 2015 6:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Magnus
Karlsson<span><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Healey
Lista<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Healeys] Water Pump</spa=
n></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span>With all of this
talk about water pump
quality, has anyone
considered rebuilding
the original pump with
new bearings and seals?=C2=
=A0
Just throwing some gas
on this fire.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span></span>=C2=A0</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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ealeys" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a=
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<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<span><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><i><span>If you can't fix it w=
ith
a hammer, you've got an electrical
problem.</span></i><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<div>
<div>John A Bahe Sr.</div>
<div>
<div>Cell:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"tel:%28502%29%20599-2696" value=
=3D"+15025992696" target=3D"_blank">(502) 599-2696</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:johnbahesr@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank=
">johnbahesr@gmail.com</a></div>
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<p> </p>
<hr> _______________________________________________<br>
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s/alexmm@roadrunner.com</a><br>
<br>
<p> </p>
<hr>
<p>No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com"; target=3D"_blank"=
>www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2015.0.5751 / Virus Database: 4299/9234 - Release
Date: 03/05/15</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div></div><pre><div><div class=3D"h5">_____________________________=
__________________
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a>
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a></div></div>
s/coudesluijs@chello.nl" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/op=
tions/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl</a>
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
=20
<p><span class=3D"">Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.<br>
Gecontroleerd door AVG - <a href=3D"http://www.avg.com"; target=3D"_=
blank">www.avg.com</a><br></span>
Versie: 2015.0.5751 / Virusdatabase: 4299/9235 - datum van
uitgifte: 03/05/15</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
nk">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
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.team.net/forums</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/michaelsalter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/=
options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><i><font><span style=3D"=
color:black">If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an elect=
rical problem.</span></font></i><br><br><div></div><div></div><div></div></=
div></div></div></div>
</div>
--001a11c34270b0fb420510a6674c--
--===============0665914832368170822==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Healeys@autox.team.net
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--===============0665914832368170822==--
|