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Re: [TR] Paint code

To: Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
From: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 07:25:21 -0600
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: triumphs@autox.team.net
References: <42DDEB51-2C87-4750-AF19-BAF61097256D@gmail.com> <CAPK7CFDUa=YNayQ+p=PBkY+TpmOrUi50jWn70yv=KBeYxrZBaA@mail.gmail.com> <929553E3-D470-46F1-AD24-97C6EE8E1A68@flash.net> <6833682B-348D-4012-9AE3-C972EF95A782@flash.net> <4219F6E4-40F1-4FFA-9A28-060E757FDA69@gmail.com> <004601d4ae70$c618ef00$524acd00$@ukpips.org.uk> <C0BBC8EC-A125-42A8-8220-A3E4B9A0EFDE@aol.com> <B6ECE09A-BB5C-4315-8545-0957125C4F0A@Ukpips.org.uk> <CAPK7CFB4s+MB98aSbHGvmEyLxLMk5gRA2vkae9QVsUnHk4mj1A@mail.gmail.com> <000501d4aef0$dd795f10$986c1d30$@flash.net> <79B0C07F-A2F4-4A00-AA1A-1847FE9C5D06@aol.com>
--===============8161536743363631832==

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Perhaps our forum friend John Macartney canl come in with more and better
information, but Sir John Black made a real commitment to disabled war
vets.  S-T found productive work for many, for years and years.  It
wouldn't surprise me at all that one of those positions was marking engines=
.

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:06 AM Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s@aol.com> wrote:

> With reference to the Tr3 engine  block markings I remember reading
> several years ago along with having conversations a Tr gatherings that at
> the end of the engine production line there was one employee with only on=
e
> arm and he was responsible for writing TR 3 using just one finger which h=
e
> zipped into the orange red paint and scribbled the markings on the engine
> block. Larry Schwartz
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, wbeech <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>
> Great picture Don, I have always re-painted the orange =E2=80=9CTR3=E2=80=
=9D after an
> engine rebuild, used Chevrolet engine orange.  Had never seen the china
> marker markings before.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net
> <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net>] *On Behalf Of *Don Hiscock
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:47 PM
> *To:* John Macartney <John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk>; Triumphs <
> triumphs@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Paint code
>
>
>
> Here's an image of the Coventry assembly line taken by a member of the
> tour group on Triumph USA's 1958 Rally of Europe for new owners who took
> their delivery at the factory and toured the Continent.  One can see some
> of the various marshalling marks on the engines ready to be used on the
> line.
>
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM John Macartney <
> John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Thing is Jack, that this far down the track, no one knows! In fact, I
> doubt the majority of people at the factory did either:)
>
>
>
> Cheers, John
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On 17 Jan 2019, at 17:50, Jack McGahey <McGaheyRx@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I have those markings on my TR6 block - reapplied after engine rebuild
> during restoration.
>
>
>
> I can=E2=80=99t speak about TRA, but I can say that neither VTR or 6-pack=
 look for
> these markings, or deduct for their absence, during Concours judging - an=
d
> I=E2=80=99ve never heard anybody say they knew what they meant or why the=
y are
> there.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jack Mc
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:27 AM, John Macartney <john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk=
>
> wrote:
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> In the rebuild of your car, did you by chance find any obscure markings i=
n
> yellow or white chinagraph chalk on the engine block? These were common
> identifiers used at the factory that were understood by those who worked =
in
> engine assembly =E2=80=93 but no-one else. Primarily, the mark was to dis=
tinguish
> the machined but unassembled block as being an ultimate engine for a Nort=
h
> America spec car. Not all the blocks had these marks but I do know many
> others have encountered them years later and wondered what the hell they
> were. Being anxious to replicate what had been there after re-painting th=
e
> block, they replaced the code. I=E2=80=99d be very surprised if TRA or VT=
R have
> extra marks in their judging books =E2=80=93 or even deduct marks if they=
 weren=E2=80=99t
> there.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Jonmac
>
>
>
> *From:* Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.teamnet
> <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net>> *On Behalf Of *Jim Henningsen
> *Sent:* 17 January 2019 12:31
> *To:* wbeech@flash.net
> *Cc:* Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [TR] Paint code
>
>
>
> Bill:
>
> I have the TRA judging guide for the TR4 and have been using it as my
> plumb line for the restoration going back to 2010 when I purchased the
> car.  The trick is what to tell the auto paint store for a color to match
> that would be acceptable to judges.  My goal isn=E2=80=99t to beat everyo=
ne in a
> concours but to faithfully recreate the car as it was born.  I am not
> interested in trophies.  Over the 8 years restoring this car, s I have
> sometimes found it hard to get info from the expert judges and respected
> restorers of these cars. I=E2=80=99d love to know more specifics on the c=
olor and
> or source that experts in TRA think correct.  Also, I heard Macy=E2=80=99=
s Garage
> had an early TR4at the last TRA event.  Does anyone have any detailed
> photos of that car they could share.  The few I saw looked magnificent an=
d
> they have such a great reputation.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Jim Henningsen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:42 PM, Wbeech@flash.net <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>
> Judging guide Reference Should be TRA, my oversight.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 8:29 PM, Wbeech@flash.net <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>
> If y=E2=80=99all will allow one more =E2=80=9Cauthority=E2=80=9D to weigh=
 in, the VTR Judging
> Guidlines state, =E2=80=9CThe canister is painted ice blue (specific colo=
r unknown)
> which takes a pale green caste with age.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99ll stick with my Valspar Peacock Blue.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>
> Sent from my Motorola 8000X
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The TR Register (UK) forum had a thread on the subject of oil filter
> canister housings a few years ago.
>
>
> https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bo=
wl/
> <https://wwwtr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bo=
wl/>
>
>
>
> Note especially the comments by our late, great friend Alec Pringle about
> his experience with lots of variations and the quite realistic comment th=
at
> S-T were a lot more worried about keeping lines going and spares supplied
> than getting details "right" around shade.
>
>
>
> The thread has some useful info, but this is one of those don't-sweat-it
> subjects around our cars.
>
>
>
> Don
>
> 1962 TR3B TSF202L
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM James Henningsen <trguy75@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Anyone have a source for correct paint color on early 1962 TR4 oil filter
> canister housing.  TRA judging manual says ice blue that patinas to a pal=
e
> green.  Looking for a color code I can give my paint shop.   Thanks to an=
y
> concours experts out there.
> Jim Henningsen
> Ocala FL
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
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>

--00000000000072450305818a20e9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Perhaps our forum friend John Macartney canl come in with =
more and better information, but Sir John Black made a real commitment to d=
isabled war vets.=C2=A0 S-T found productive work for many, for years and y=
ears.=C2=A0 It wouldn&#39;t surprise me at all that one of those positions =
was marking engines.<div><br></div><div>Don</div><div>1962 TR3B TSF202L</di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr=
">On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:06 AM Lawarence Schwartz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
L1j1s@aol.com">L1j1s@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">With reference to the Tr3 eng=
ine =C2=A0block markings I remember reading several years ago along with ha=
ving conversations a Tr gatherings that at the end of the engine production=
 line there was one employee with only one arm and he was responsible for w=
riting TR 3 using just one finger which he zipped into the orange red paint=
 and scribbled the markings on the engine block. Larry Schwartz<br><br><div=
 id=3D"gmail-m_-7582095811443505830AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Sent fro=
m my iPhone</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On Jan 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, wbeech =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flash.net<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
 class=3D"gmail-m_-7582095811443505830WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,7=
3,125)">Great picture Don, I have always re-painted the orange =E2=80=9CTR3=
=E2=80=9D after an engine rebuild, used Chevrolet engine orange.=C2=A0 Had =
never seen the china marker markings before.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bill<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31=
,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span=
 style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Triumphs [<a href=
=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">mailto:triump=
hs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Hiscock<br><b>Sent:<=
/b> Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:47 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Macartney &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk"; target=3D"_blank">John.Macartn=
ey@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.tea=
m.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b>=
 Re: [TR] Paint code<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here&#39;s an image of th=
e Coventry assembly line taken by a member of the tour group on Triumph USA=
&#39;s 1958 Rally of Europe for new owners who took their delivery at the f=
actory and toured the Continent.=C2=A0 One can see some of the various mars=
halling marks on the engines ready to be used on the line.<u></u><u></u></p=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i=
-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg" target=3D"_blank">https://photos.smugm=
ug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg</a><u></u><u></u></p></d=
iv></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM John Macartney &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk"; target=3D"_blank">John.Macartne=
y@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"=
border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in=
"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thing is Jack, that this far down the track, =
no one knows! In fact, I doubt the majority of people at the factory did ei=
ther:)<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p=
></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Cheers, Joh=
n<u></u><u></u></p><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7582095811443505830gmail-m_121747443=
9255518928AppleMailSignature"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<u></=
u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"=
><br>On 17 Jan 2019, at 17:50, Jack McGahey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:McGaheyRx=
@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">McGaheyRx@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u><=
/p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">I have those markings on my TR6 block - reapplied after en=
gine rebuild during restoration.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I can=E2=80=99=
t speak about TRA, but I can say that neither VTR or 6-pack look for these =
markings, or deduct for their absence, during Concours judging - and I=E2=
=80=99ve never heard anybody say they knew what they meant or why they are =
there.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=
=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Jack Mc<u></u>=
<u></u></p><div id=3D"gmail-m_-7582095811443505830gmail-m_12174744392555189=
28AppleMailSignature"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u=
></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On =
Jan 17, 2019, at 9:27 AM, John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:john.macartn=
ey@ukpips.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bott=
om:5pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the rebuild of =
your car, did you by chance find any obscure markings in yellow or white ch=
inagraph chalk on the engine block? These were common identifiers used at t=
he factory that were understood by those who worked in engine assembly =E2=
=80=93 but no-one else. Primarily, the mark was to distinguish the machined=
 but unassembled block as being an ultimate engine for a North America spec=
 car. Not all the blocks had these marks but I do know many others have enc=
ountered them years later and wondered what the hell they were. Being anxio=
us to replicate what had been there after re-painting the block, they repla=
ced the code. I=E2=80=99d be very surprised if TRA or VTR have extra marks =
in their judging books =E2=80=93 or even deduct marks if they weren=E2=80=
=99t there.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers, Jonmac<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div><div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bot=
tom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt=
 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounces@autox=
.teamnet</a>&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Henningsen<br><b>Sent:</b> 17 Janu=
ary 2019 12:31<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"=
_blank">wbeech@flash.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
riumphs@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<b=
r><b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Paint code<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Bill:<u></u><=
u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have the TRA judging guide for the =
TR4 and have been using it as my plumb line for the restoration going back =
to 2010 when I purchased the car.=C2=A0 The trick is what to tell the auto =
paint store for a color to match that would be acceptable to judges.=C2=A0 =
My goal isn=E2=80=99t to beat everyone in a concours but to faithfully recr=
eate the car as it was born.=C2=A0 I am not interested in trophies.=C2=A0 O=
ver the 8 years restoring this car, s I have sometimes found it hard to get=
 info from the expert judges and respected restorers of these cars. I=E2=80=
=99d love to know more specifics on the color and or source that experts in=
 TRA think correct.=C2=A0 Also, I heard Macy=E2=80=99s Garage had an early =
TR4at the last TRA event.=C2=A0 Does anyone have any detailed photos of tha=
t car they could share.=C2=A0 The few I saw looked magnificent and they hav=
e such a great reputation. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"M=
soNormal">Thanks so much,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Jim Henningsen<u></u><u></u></p><div id=3D"g=
mail-m_-7582095811443505830gmail-m_1217474439255518928AppleMailSignature"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:42 =
PM, <a href=3D"mailto:Wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">Wbeech@flash.net<=
/a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flash.=
net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5=
pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Judging guide Refere=
nce Should be TRA, my oversight.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">Bill<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bott=
om:12pt">On Jan 16, 2019, at 8:29 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:Wbeech@flash.net"; t=
arget=3D"_blank">Wbeech@flash.net</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.ne=
t" target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flash.net</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">If y=E2=80=99all will allow one more =E2=80=9C=
authority=E2=80=9D to weigh in, the VTR Judging Guidlines state, =E2=80=9CT=
he canister is painted ice blue (specific color unknown) which takes a pale=
 green caste with age.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I=E2=80=99ll st=
ick with my Valspar Peacock Blue.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">C=
heers,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-b=
ottom:12pt">Bill<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my =
Motorola 8000X<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"=
margin-bottom:12pt"><br>On Jan 16, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Don Hiscock &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">don.hiscock@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>The TR Register (UK) forum had a thread on the subject of oil filter canis=
ter housings a few years ago.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<a href=3D"https://wwwtr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-f=
ilter-bowl/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.p=
hp?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bowl/</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">No=
te especially the comments by our late, great friend Alec Pringle about his=
 experience with lots of variations and the quite realistic comment that S-=
T were a lot more worried about keeping lines going and spares supplied tha=
n getting details &quot;right&quot; around shade.<u></u><u></u></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">The thread has some useful info, but this is one of those don&#39;=
t-sweat-it subjects around our cars.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Do=
n<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">1962 TR3B TSF202L<u></=
u><u></u></p></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM James =
Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:trguy75@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">trguy=
75@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"bor=
der-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb=
(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">Anyone have a source for correct paint color on early 1962 TR4 =
oil filter canister housing.=C2=A0 TRA judging manual says ice blue that pa=
tinas to a pale green.=C2=A0 Looking for a color code I can give my paint s=
hop.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks to any concours experts out there. <br>Jim Hennings=
en <br>Ocala FL<br><br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br>** <a href=3D"mailto:triu=
mphs@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **<br><b=
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