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Re: [TR] Paint code

To: Stan Foster <stan@redtr6.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:20:03 +0000
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Bill Beecher also asked much the same. I=E2=80=99m more than happy to reissu=
e it but wouldn=E2=80=99t it be better if it was offered by one of you to TV=
T=E2=80=99s new editor? He says he wants material and I know that the histor=
y that Paul Richardson and I write about seems to have a US/Canada following=
. As Paul is TVTs UK correspondent, I think the matter needs to be squared w=
ith him first via the editor and if he wants what I wrote (which his predece=
ssor preferred not to use) then I=E2=80=99m happy to send it over for everyo=
ne to read.

Jonmac


> On 10 Feb 2019, at 22:44, Stan Foster <stan@redtr6.com> wrote:
>=20
> John, if you still have that  article I bet I=E2=80=99m not the only one t=
hat would like to see it. This was an important time for Triumph and the Bri=
tish car industry and the role that returning servicemen and women played a r=
ole would be of interest to me.
> =20
> Stan
> =20
> From: John Macartney <John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk>=20
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 4:46 PM
> To: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com>
> Cc: Stan Foster <stan@redtr6.com>; triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
> =20
> Makes me laugh sometimes when this lore comes back. Ye gods, Standard coul=
d afford to provide a one armed war wounded man a paintbrush!!!
> What so many over the pond continuously fail to appreciate when it comes t=
o the wet liner four pot is that the block was common to many different uses=
. The basic block appeared in the TR, Vanguard, Ensign, Leyland 15 and 20 la=
ter on and in differing sizes for industrial applications. One basic block, m=
any different engine types! The =E2=80=9Cpaint codes, colours and shapes=E2=80=
=9D were worked out by engine assembly people in line with engine build shee=
ts. They knew what they were doing and as long as the correct unit was built=
, no one else worried.
> The story about Sir John Black and returning servicemen is another affair o=
f equal import. I wrote it out for TVT some years ago but someone chopped lu=
mps out of it and I vetoed the print because it gave a rather different and b=
y no means as comprehensive account, and skewed the narrative to Black=E2=80=
=99s disadvantage.
> =20
> Jonmac
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On 10 Feb 2019, at 16:34, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> My April 1962 TR3B=E2=80=99s engine=E2=80=99s marshaling marks were brushe=
d for sure.=20
>=20
> On Sunday, February 10, 2019, Stan Foster <stan@redtr6.com> wrote:
> The few that I have seen personally have a brushed appearance. =C2=BE inch=
 wide, coarse brush. A one armed man can still use a brush.
> =20
> Stan
> =20
> From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:25 AM
> To: Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s@aol.com>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
> =20
> Perhaps our forum friend John Macartney canl come in with more and better i=
nformation, but Sir John Black made a real commitment to disabled war vets. =
 S-T found productive work for many, for years and years.  It wouldn't surpr=
ise me at all that one of those positions was marking engines.
> =20
> Don
> 1962 TR3B TSF202L
> =20
> On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:06 AM Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s@aol.com> wrote:
> With reference to the Tr3 engine  block markings I remember reading severa=
l years ago along with having conversations a Tr gatherings that at the end o=
f the engine production line there was one employee with only one arm and he=
 was responsible for writing TR 3 using just one finger which he zipped into=
 the orange red paint and scribbled the markings on the engine block. Larry S=
chwartz
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jan 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, wbeech <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>=20
> Great picture Don, I have always re-painted the orange =E2=80=9CTR3=E2=80=9D=
 after an engine rebuild, used Chevrolet engine orange.  Had never seen the c=
hina marker markings before.
> Bill
> =20
> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don H=
iscock
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:47 PM
> To: John Macartney <John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk>; Triumphs <triumphs@auto=
x.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
> =20
> Here's an image of the Coventry assembly line taken by a member of the tou=
r group on Triumph USA's 1958 Rally of Europe for new owners who took their d=
elivery at the factory and toured the Continent.  One can see some of the va=
rious marshalling marks on the engines ready to be used on the line.
> https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg
> =20
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM John Macartney <John.Macartney@ukpips.org.=
uk> wrote:
> Thing is Jack, that this far down the track, no one knows! In fact, I doub=
t the majority of people at the factory did either:)
> =20
> Cheers, John
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On 17 Jan 2019, at 17:50, Jack McGahey <McGaheyRx@aol.com> wrote:
>=20
> I have those markings on my TR6 block - reapplied after engine rebuild dur=
ing restoration.
> =20
> I can=E2=80=99t speak about TRA, but I can say that neither VTR or 6-pack l=
ook for these markings, or deduct for their absence, during Concours judging=
 - and I=E2=80=99ve never heard anybody say they knew what they meant or why=
 they are there.=20
> =20
> Cheers,
> Jack Mc
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:27 AM, John Macartney <john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk>=
 wrote:
>=20
> Jim
> =20
> In the rebuild of your car, did you by chance find any obscure markings in=
 yellow or white chinagraph chalk on the engine block? These were common ide=
ntifiers used at the factory that were understood by those who worked in eng=
ine assembly =E2=80=93 but no-one else. Primarily, the mark was to distingui=
sh the machined but unassembled block as being an ultimate engine for a Nort=
h America spec car. Not all the blocks had these marks but I do know many ot=
hers have encountered them years later and wondered what the hell they were.=
 Being anxious to replicate what had been there after re-painting the block,=
 they replaced the code. I=E2=80=99d be very surprised if TRA or VTR have ex=
tra marks in their judging books =E2=80=93 or even deduct marks if they were=
n=E2=80=99t there.
> =20
> Cheers, Jonmac
> =20
> From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces@autox.teamnet> On Behalf Of Jim Henningse=
n
> Sent: 17 January 2019 12:31
> To: wbeech@flash.net
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code
> =20
> Bill:
> I have the TRA judging guide for the TR4 and have been using it as my plum=
b line for the restoration going back to 2010 when I purchased the car.  The=
 trick is what to tell the auto paint store for a color to match that would b=
e acceptable to judges.  My goal isn=E2=80=99t to beat everyone in a concour=
s but to faithfully recreate the car as it was born.  I am not interested in=
 trophies.  Over the 8 years restoring this car, s I have sometimes found it=
 hard to get info from the expert judges and respected restorers of these ca=
rs. I=E2=80=99d love to know more specifics on the color and or source that e=
xperts in TRA think correct.  Also, I heard Macy=E2=80=99s Garage had an ear=
ly TR4at the last TRA event.  Does anyone have any detailed photos of that c=
ar they could share.  The few I saw looked magnificent and they have such a g=
reat reputation. =20
> Thanks so much,
> Jim Henningsen
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:42 PM, Wbeech@flash.net <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>=20
> Judging guide Reference Should be TRA, my oversight.=20
> Bill
> =20
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 8:29 PM, Wbeech@flash.net <wbeech@flash.net> wrote:
>=20
> If y=E2=80=99all will allow one more =E2=80=9Cauthority=E2=80=9D to weigh i=
n, the VTR Judging Guidlines state, =E2=80=9CThe canister is painted ice blu=
e (specific color unknown) which takes a pale green caste with age.=E2=80=9D=

> =20
> I=E2=80=99ll stick with my Valspar Peacock Blue.=20
> =20
> Cheers,
> Bill
>=20
> Sent from my Motorola 8000X
>=20
> On Jan 16, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> The TR Register (UK) forum had a thread on the subject of oil filter canis=
ter housings a few years ago.
> https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bow=
l/
> =20
> Note especially the comments by our late, great friend Alec Pringle about h=
is experience with lots of variations and the quite realistic comment that S=
-T were a lot more worried about keeping lines going and spares supplied tha=
n getting details "right" around shade.
> =20
> The thread has some useful info, but this is one of those don't-sweat-it s=
ubjects around our cars.
> =20
> Don
> 1962 TR3B TSF202L
> =20
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM James Henningsen <trguy75@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> Anyone have a source for correct paint color on early 1962 TR4 oil filter c=
anister housing.  TRA judging manual says ice blue that patinas to a pale gr=
een.  Looking for a color code I can give my paint shop.   Thanks to any con=
cours experts out there.=20
> Jim Henningsen=20
> Ocala FL
>=20
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Bill Beecher also asked much the same. I=E2=
=80=99m more than happy to reissue it but wouldn=E2=80=99t it be better if i=
t was offered by one of you to TVT=E2=80=99s new editor? He says he wants ma=
terial and I know that the history that Paul Richardson and I write about se=
ems to have a US/Canada following. As Paul is TVTs UK correspondent, I think=
 the matter needs to be squared with him first via the editor and if he want=
s what I wrote (which his predecessor preferred not to use) then I=E2=80=99m=
 happy to send it over for everyone to read.<div><br></div><div>Jonmac<br><b=
r><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>On 10 Feb 2019, at 22:44, Stan Foster &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:stan@redtr6.com";>stan@redtr6.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John, if you still have that&nbsp; article I bet I=E2=
=80=99m not the only one that would like to see it. This was an important ti=
me for Triumph and the British car industry and the role that returning serv=
icemen and women played a role would be of interest
 to me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Stan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Joh=
n.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk">John.Macartney@Ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 10, 2019 4:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmail.com";>don.hisc=
ock@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Stan Foster &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stan@redtr6.com";>stan@redtr6.co=
m</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.ne=
t</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Paint code<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Makes me laugh sometimes when this lore comes back. Y=
e gods, Standard could afford to provide a one armed war wounded man a paint=
brush!!!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">What so many over the pond continuously fail to appre=
ciate when it comes to the wet liner four pot is that the block was common t=
o many different uses. The basic block appeared in the TR, Vanguard, Ensign,=
 Leyland 15 and 20 later on and
 in differing sizes for industrial applications. One basic block, many diffe=
rent engine types! The =E2=80=9Cpaint codes, colours and shapes=E2=80=9D wer=
e worked out by engine assembly people in line with engine build sheets. The=
y knew what they were doing and as long as the
 correct unit was built, no one else worried.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The story about Sir John Black and returning servicem=
en is another affair of equal import. I wrote it out for TVT some years ago b=
ut someone chopped lumps out of it and I vetoed the print because it gave a r=
ather different and by no means
 as comprehensive account, and skewed the narrative to Black=E2=80=99s disad=
vantage.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Jonmac<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 10 Feb 2019, at 16:34, Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@gmai=
l.com">don.hiscock@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My April 1962 TR3B=E2=80=99s engine=E2=80=99s marshal=
ing marks were brushed for sure.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
On Sunday, February 10, 2019, Stan Foster &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stan@redtr6.=
com">stan@redtr6.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">The few that I have seen personally have a brushed appearance. =C2=BE=
 inch wide, coarse brush. A one armed man can still use a brush.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Stan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><b>From:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Hiscock<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lawarence Schwartz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:L1j1s@aol.com"; target=3D=
"_blank">L1j1s@aol.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Paint code<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Perhaps our forum friend John Macartney canl come in with more and b=
etter information, but Sir John Black made a real commitment to disabled war=
 vets.&nbsp; S-T found productive work
 for many, for years and years.&nbsp; It wouldn't surprise me at all that on=
e of those positions was marking engines.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">1962 TR3B TSF202L<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:06 AM Lawarence Schwartz &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:L1j1s@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">L1j1s@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bo=
ttom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">With reference to the Tr3 engine &nbsp;block markings I remember reading s=
everal years ago along with having conversations a Tr gatherings that at the=
 end of the engine production line there
 was one employee with only one arm and he was responsible for writing TR 3 u=
sing just one finger which he zipped into the orange red paint and scribbled=
 the markings on the engine block. Larry Schwartz<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
"><br>
On Jan 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, wbeech &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"=
 target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flash.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Great picture Don, I have always re-pa=
inted the orange =E2=80=9CTR3=E2=80=9D after an engine rebuild, used Chevrol=
et engine orange.&nbsp; Had never seen the china marker
 markings before.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Bill</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><b>From:</b> Triumphs [<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team=
.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Hiscock<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk=
" target=3D"_blank">John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt;; Triumphs &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.=
net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Paint code<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Here's an image of the Coventry assembly line taken by a member of t=
he tour group on Triumph USA's 1958 Rally of Europe for new owners who took t=
heir delivery at the factory and
 toured the Continent.&nbsp; One can see some of the various marshalling mar=
ks on the engines ready to be used on the line.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><a href=3D"https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/=
i-b5KrzK2.jpg" target=3D"_blank">https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2=
/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:John.Macartney@ukpips.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">John.Macartney@ukpips.org.u=
k</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bo=
ttom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Thing is Jack, that this far down the track, no one knows! In fact, I=
 doubt the majority of people at the factory did either:)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">Cheers, John<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
"><br>
On 17 Jan 2019, at 17:50, Jack McGahey &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:McGaheyRx@aol.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">McGaheyRx@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">I have those markings on my TR6 block - reapplied after engine rebui=
ld during restoration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">I can=E2=80=99t speak about TRA, but I can say that neither VTR or 6=
-pack look for these markings, or deduct for their absence, during Concours j=
udging - and I=E2=80=99ve never heard anybody say
 they knew what they meant or why they are there.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">Jack Mc<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
"><br>
On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:27 AM, John Macartney &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:john.macar=
tney@ukpips.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a>&gt; w=
rote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Jim<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">In the rebuild of your car, did you by chance find any obscure marki=
ngs in yellow or white chinagraph chalk on the engine block? These were comm=
on identifiers used at the factory
 that were understood by those who worked in engine assembly =E2=80=93 but n=
o-one else. Primarily, the mark was to distinguish the machined but unassemb=
led block as being an ultimate engine for a North America spec car. Not all t=
he blocks had these marks but I do know
 many others have encountered them years later and wondered what the hell th=
ey were. Being anxious to replicate what had been there after re-painting th=
e block, they replaced the code. I=E2=80=99d be very surprised if TRA or VTR=
 have extra marks in their judging books
 =E2=80=93 or even deduct marks if they weren=E2=80=99t there.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Cheers, Jonmac<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><b>From:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">triumphs-bounces@autox.teamnet</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Henningsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 17 January 2019 12:31<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flas=
h.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Triumphs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TR] Paint code<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Bill:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">I have the TRA judging guide for the TR4 and have been using it as m=
y plumb line for the restoration going back to 2010 when I purchased the car=
.&nbsp; The trick is what to tell the
 auto paint store for a color to match that would be acceptable to judges.&n=
bsp; My goal isn=E2=80=99t to beat everyone in a concours but to faithfully r=
ecreate the car as it was born.&nbsp; I am not interested in trophies.&nbsp;=
 Over the 8 years restoring this car, s I have sometimes
 found it hard to get info from the expert judges and respected restorers of=
 these cars. I=E2=80=99d love to know more specifics on the color and or sou=
rce that experts in TRA think correct.&nbsp; Also, I heard Macy=E2=80=99s Ga=
rage had an early TR4at the last TRA event.&nbsp; Does
 anyone have any detailed photos of that car they could share.&nbsp; The few=
 I saw looked magnificent and they have such a great reputation. &nbsp;<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Thanks so much,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">Jim Henningsen<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
"><br>
On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:42 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:Wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"=
_blank">Wbeech@flash.net</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D=
"_blank">wbeech@flash.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Judging guide Reference Should be TRA, my oversight.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">On Jan 16, 2019, at 8:29 PM,
<a href=3D"mailto:Wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">Wbeech@flash.net</a> &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wbeech@flash.net"; target=3D"_blank">wbeech@flash.net</a=
>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">If y=E2=80=99all will allow one more =E2=80=9Cauthority=E2=80=9D to w=
eigh in, the VTR Judging Guidlines state, =E2=80=9CThe canister is painted i=
ce blue (specific color unknown) which takes a pale green caste
 with age.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">I=E2=80=99ll stick with my Valspar Peacock Blue.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
">Bill<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Sent from my Motorola 8000X<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt=
"><br>
On Jan 16, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Don Hiscock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:don.hiscock@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">don.hiscock@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">The TR Register (UK) forum had a thread on the subject of oil filter=
 canister housings a few years ago.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><a href=3D"https://wwwtr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/4425=
2-oil-filter-bowl/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/i=
ndex.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bowl/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Note especially the comments by our late, great friend Alec Pringle a=
bout his experience with lots of variations and the quite realistic comment t=
hat S-T were a lot more worried
 about keeping lines going and spares supplied than getting details "right" a=
round shade.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">The thread has some useful info, but this is one of those don't-swea=
t-it subjects around our cars.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">1962 TR3B TSF202L<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM James Henningsen &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:trguy75@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">trguy75@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in=
 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bo=
ttom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">Anyone have a source for correct paint color on early 1962 TR4 oil f=
ilter canister housing.&nbsp; TRA judging manual says ice blue that patinas t=
o a pale green.&nbsp; Looking for a color
 code I can give my paint shop.&nbsp; &nbsp;Thanks to any concours experts o=
ut there. <br>
Jim Henningsen <br>
Ocala FL<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@aut=
ox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/don.hiscock@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">
http://autoxteam.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock@gmail.com</a><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">**
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/wbeech@flash.net" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/wbeech@flash.net</a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">**
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
teamnet</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/trguy75@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/trguy75@gmail.com</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=3D=
"0" style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width=3D"55" style=3D"width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto"><a href=3D"https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;ut=
m_source=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Demailclient" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"text-decoration:none"><img border=3D"0" widt=
h=3D"46" height=3D"29" style=3D"width:.4791in;height:.3055in" id=3D"_x0000_i=
1025" src=3D"https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-=
orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt=3D"https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/ico=
ns/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></a><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width=3D"470" style=3D"width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75=
pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto;line-height:13.5pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;col=
or:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a href=3D"https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=3Demail&amp;utm_source=
=3Dlink&amp;utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&amp;utm_content=3Demailclient" target=3D=
"_blank">
<span style=3D"color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">**
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/mcgaheyrx@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/mcgaheyrx@aol.com</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">**
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a>&nbsp;
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.ne=
t/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/don.hiscock@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">
http://autoxteam.net/mailman/options/triumphs/don.hiscock@gmail.com</a><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-al=
t:auto">**
<a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">triumphs@autox.=
team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs"; target=3D"_blank=
">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.tea=
m.net/archive" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/l1j1s@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/l1j1s@aol.com</a><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumph=
s@autox.team.net</a> **<br>
<br>
te.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs";>http://www.team.=
net/pipermail/triumphs</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>htt=
p://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
<br>
s/john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk<=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>** <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **</span><=
br><span></span><br><span>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html=
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a></span><br><span>Archive: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs=
</a> &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archi=
ve</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http:=
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk">http=
://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/john.macartney@ukpips.org.uk</a><=
/span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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