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On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:
>
> Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the
> MGA. So what's wrong here? The year?
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=p2qrOg8COx8
Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes
>
> Ed
>
>> On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the
>> racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is
>> legendary. Â It all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le
>> Mans with a 1.1 liter car. Â The link below is to a fantastic video of
>> the restoration of that car. Â At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a
>> still photo from the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but
>> I don't see a Triumph. Â It was the smallest engine in the race,
>> and they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.  If they had
>> lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have been changed.
>>
>> The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through
>> years of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le
>> Mans, and then they did an amazing job to restore it. Â The CEO of
>> Kettle potato chips, he is the owner of the car.
>>
>> https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Cool. Thanks, Rye. That's sort of what I'm asking. Engine size can
>>> be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on. So the Spyder was
>>> 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
>>>
>>>> On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of
>>>> only 90 produced, not a Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but
>>>> it was a Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, two separate
>>>> ignition manifolds and two ignition coils.  It was also a mid
>>>> engine design like the 914 and the current Boxter and Cayman. Â So
>>>> this car isn't comparable to a Triumph or MGA of that era.
>>>>
>>>> Rye
>>>> 1960 TR3A
>>>> 1963 356
>>>> 1968 912
>>>> 1988 911 Carrera
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm. So looking quickly other street cars of the time, a 1959
>>>>> Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the
>>>>> Porsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James
>>>>> Dean died in one. The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter. The Jaguar XK
>>>>> 150 had a 3.8 liter engine. Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and
>>>>> 1.3 liter engine. As far as I can tell the Fiat 850 started in
>>>>> 1964, with an engine a single strong man could seemingly lift.Â
>>>>> The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter. The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7
>>>>> liters. Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six
>>>>> cylinder engines. The Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister
>>>>> called it her putt-putt. Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the
>>>>> same 2 liter engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All this said, and certainly subject to any corrections you might
>>>>> have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races against
>>>>> these. Anybody?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry
>>>>>
>>>>>> On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <tr3driver@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 110 mph in 4^th OD is only 4500 rpm. Not what I call â??crank
>>>>>> shattering rpmâ??. A stock TR3 wonâ??t usually run that fast of
>>>>>> course, but 87mm liners were actually cheaper than 83s, back in
>>>>>> the 70s. (I actually found a set that had been returned to
>>>>>> Warshawskiâ??s in Chicago, better known as JC Whitney, for even
>>>>>> less than the usual price.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Iâ??ve run 4500 for literally hours without a problem. (Speed
>>>>>> enforcement in the desert tends to be lax ðŸË?Å )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
>>>>>> for Windows 10
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [TR] MGA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me. When I say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm
>>>>>> referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rather) that
>>>>>> clips along between 70 and 80 mph. I've been curious about the
>>>>>> various cruising speeds and power performances of TR3's and their
>>>>>> competition back in the day, cruising that is without winding up
>>>>>> to crank shattering rpm's. Anybody familiar with that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>>>>>> http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/terryrs@comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>>>>> http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>
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>
>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:820904539.979324.1563407009737@connect.xfinity.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Well, in 1951 the
TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. So
what's wrong here? The year?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=p2qrOg8COx8";>https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=p2qrOg8COx8</a></p>
<p>Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:820904539.979324.1563407009737@connect.xfinity.com">
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Ed<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ryel@mac.com";><ryel@mac.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div>Â <br>
</div>
<div>I don't know the racing history of the two cars together,
but the racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger
horsepower cars is legendary. Â It all started with a 356 in
1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car. Â The
link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that
car. Â At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from
the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't
see a Triumph. Â It was the smallest engine in the race,
and they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.  If
they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have
been changed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the
car, through years of research they were able to verify it was
the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing job to
restore it. Â The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner
of the car.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:terryrs@comcast.net";><terryrs@comcast.net></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote">
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Cool.Â
Thanks, Rye. That's sort of what I'm asking. Engine
size can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so
on. So the Spyder was 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph,
but significantly outperformed?<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye
Livingston <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ryel@mac.com";><ryel@mac.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div><span style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px;">One correction, James Dean died in
a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a
Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a
Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, <span
style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-transform:
none; text-indent: 0px; font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px; float:
none; display: inline; white-space: normal;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">two
separate ignition manifolds and two ignition
coils. Â It was also a mid engine design like the
914 and the current Boxter and Cayman. Â So this
car isn't comparable to a Triumph or MGA of that
era.</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; font-family:
geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style:
normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></div>
Â
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
14px;">Rye</span> <br>
<span style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;">1960 TR3A</span></span></div>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;">1963 356</span></span></div>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;">1968 912</span></span></div>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;">1988 911
Carrera</span></span></div>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span
style="font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span
style="font-size: 14px;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><br>
On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:terryrs@comcast.net";><terryrs@comcast.net></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote">
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Hmmm.Â
So looking quickly other street cars of the
time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter
engine; I don't know about the Porsche
"speedster" or even if it was different, other
than James Dean died in one. The 1959 MGA had a
1.6 liter. The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter
engine. Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3
liter engine. As far as I can tell the Fiat 850
started in 1964, with an engine a single strong
man could seemingly lift. The Sunbeam Alpine
was a 1.5 liter. The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7
liters. Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys
four and six cylinder engines. The Bugeye
Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it
her putt-putt. Triumphs and Morgans, of course,
ran the same 2 liter engine.<br>
</p>
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">All
this said, and certainly subject to any
corrections you might have, I remain unsure how
Triumphs stacked up in races against these.Â
Anybody?<br>
</p>
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</p>
<p style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Terry<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">On July 16, 2019 at 5:40
PM Randall <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:tr3driver@ca.rr.com";><tr3driver@ca.rr.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordSection1">
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">110
mph in 4<sup>th</sup> OD is only 4500 rpm.Â
Not what I call â??crank shattering rpmâ??. A
stock TR3 wonâ??t usually run that fast of
course, but 87mm liners were actually
cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s. (I
actually found a set that had been returned
to Warshawskiâ??s in Chicago, better known as
JC Whitney, for even less than the usual
price.)</p>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">And
Iâ??ve run 4500 for literally hours without a
problem. (Speed enforcement in the desert
tends to be lax <span style="font-family:
"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif;">ðŸË?Å </span>
)</p>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Sent
from <a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986";
moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a> for
Windows 10</p>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Â </p>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium;
border-style: solid none none; border-color:
rgb(225, 225, 225) currentColor
currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"
style="padding: 0in; border: currentColor;
border-image: none;"><strong>From: </strong><a
href="mailto:terryrs@comcast.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">TERRY SMITH</a><br>
<strong>Sent: </strong>Tuesday, July 16,
2019 1:47 PM<br>
<strong>To: </strong><a
href="mailto:tr3driver@ca.rr.com";
moz-do-not-send="true">Randall</a><br>
<strong>Cc: </strong><a
href="mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">Triumphs</a><br>
<strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR] MGA</p>
</div>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Â </p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51);
font-family:
"Helvetica",sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt;">That reminds me. When I
say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm
referencing traffic on the freeway here
(tollway, rather) that clips along between
70 and 80 mph. I've been curious about
the various cruising speeds and power
performances of TR3's and their
competition back in the day, cruising that
is without winding up to crank shattering
rpm's. Anybody familiar with that? </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p
class="ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-default-style"
style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family:
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