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Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. =
So what's wrong here? The year?
Ed
> On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> wrote:
>=20
> =20
> I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the rac=
ing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is legendary.=
It all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1=
liter car. The link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of t=
hat car. At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the race=
, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph. It was=
the smallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that started P=
orsche racing. If they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would=
have been changed.
>=20
> The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through =
years of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le Mans,=
and then they did an amazing job to restore it. The CEO of Kettle potato =
chips, he is the owner of the car.
>=20
> https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-=
porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>=20
>=20
> > >=20
> > Cool. Thanks, Rye. That's sort of what I'm asking. Engine si=
ze can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on. So the Spyder was=
500 cc's smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
> >=20
> > > > > On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac=
.com> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, =
one of only 90 produced, not a Speedster. It had a 1.5 liter engine, but i=
t was a Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, two separate ignition manif=
olds and two ignition coils. It was also a mid engine design like the 914 =
and the current Boxter and Cayman. So this car isn't comparable to a Trium=
ph or MGA of that era.
> > >=20
> > > =20
> > > Rye
> > > 1960 TR3A
> > > 1963 356
> > > 1968 912
> > > 1988 911 Carrera
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast=
.net> wrote:
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > Hmmm. So looking quickly other street cars of the =
time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the P=
orsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James Dean died =
in one. The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter. The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter e=
ngine. Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter engine. As far as I c=
an tell the Fiat 850 started in 1964, with an engine a single strong man co=
uld seemingly lift. The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter. The Austin Martin=
DB4 was 3.7 liters. Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six cy=
linder engines. The Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it h=
er putt-putt. Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine=
.
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > All this said, and certainly subject to any correct=
ions you might have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races again=
st these. Anybody?
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > Terry
> > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <=
tr3driver@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > 110 mph in 4th OD is only 4500 rpm. Not what=
I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shattering rpm=E2=80=9D. A stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t =
usually run that fast of course, but 87mm liners were actually cheaper than=
83s, back in the 70s. (I actually found a set that had been returned to W=
arshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better known as JC Whitney, for even less t=
han the usual price.)
> > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > And I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours=
without a problem. (Speed enforcement in the desert tends to be lax =F0=
=9F=98=8A )
> > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Sent from Mail https://go.microsoft.com/fwlin=
k/?LinkId=3D550986 for Windows 10
> > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > From: TERRY SMITH mailto:terryrs@comcast.net
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
> > > > > To: Randall mailto:tr3driver@ca.rr.com
> > > > > Cc: Triumphs mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TR] MGA
> > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > That reminds me. When I say my TR3 "keeps up=
with traffic," I'm referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rathe=
r) that clips along between 70 and 80 mph. I've been curious about the var=
ious cruising speeds and power performances of TR3's and their competition =
back in the day, cruising that is without winding up to crank shattering rp=
m's. Anybody familiar with that?=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > ** triumphs@autox.team.net mailto:tri=
umphs@autox.team.net **
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triump=
hs http://www.team.net/archive
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mai=
lman/options/triumphs/terryrs@comcast.net
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > ** triumphs@autox.team.net mailto:triumphs@autox.te=
am.net **
> > > >=20
> > > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > > > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs htt=
p://www.team.net/archive
> > > >=20
> > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/triumphs/ryel@mac.com
> > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > >=20
=20
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/a=
rchive
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fo=
gbro1@comcast.net
>=20
=20
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<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
<meta charset=3D"UTF-8">
</head><body><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,ari=
al,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been inve=
nted. But then, neither had the MGA. So what's wrong here? The year?<br=
></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-=
serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-f=
amily: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Ed<br></p><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com&=
#62; wrote: <br> <br><div> <br></div><div>I don't know the racing =
history of the two cars together, but the racing heritage of Porsche out pe=
rforming bigger horsepower cars is legendary.  It all started with a 3=
56 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car.  The lin=
k below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that car.  At 2:=
30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the race, and you can s=
ee two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph.  It was the s=
mallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that started Po=
rsche racing.  If they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche w=
ould have been changed.</div><div><br></div><div>The rest of the video is p=
retty cool how they found the car, through years of research they were able=
to verify it was the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing jo=
b to restore it.  The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner of t=
he car.</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.roadandtrack.com/ca=
r-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/">=
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsch=
e-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH =
<terryrs@comcast.net> wrote: <br> <br></div><div><blockquote type=
=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote"><p style=3D"color: rgb(51,=
51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Cool.&=
#160; Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engi=
ne size can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on.  So =
the Spyder was 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outpe=
rformed?<br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye =
Livingston <ryel@mac.com> wrote: <br> <br><div><span style=3D"font-=
family: geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">One correction, James Dean di=
ed in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a Speedster.  =
;It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a Carrera engine with twin over=
head cams, <span style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34, 34); text-transform: none=
; text-indent: 0px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-spacing: =
0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; background-color: r=
gb(255, 255, 255);">two separate ignition manifolds and two ignit=
ion coils.  It was also a mid engine design like the 914 and the curre=
nt Boxter and Cayman.  So this car isn't comparable to a Triu=
mph or MGA of that era.</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"color: rgb(3=
4, 34, 34); text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; font-family: geneva, sa=
ns-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; word-sp=
acing: 0px; float: none; display: inline; white-space: normal; background-c=
olor: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div> <div class=3D"ox-9e7d8218=
89-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, san=
s-serif; font-size: 14px;">Rye</span> <br> <span style=3D"font-family: gene=
va, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">1960 TR3A</span></span></=
div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span styl=
e=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">196=
3 356</span></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-=
signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"=
font-size: 14px;">1968 912</span></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-o=
x-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-se=
rif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;">1988 911 Carrera</span></span></div>=
<div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span style=3D=
"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 14px;"><br></s=
pan></span></div><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signatur=
e"><span style=3D"font-family: geneva, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 14px;"><br></span></span></div><div><br>On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TER=
RY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote: <br> <br></div><div><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote"><p st=
yle=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; fon=
t-size: 12pt;">Hmmm.  So looking quickly other street cars of the time=
, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the P=
orsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James De=
an died in one.  The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 150=
had a 3.8 liter engine.  Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter=
engine.  As far as I can tell the Fiat 850 started in 1964, with an e=
ngine a single strong man could seemingly lift.  The Sunbeam Alpine wa=
s a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 liters.  Couldn'=
;t quickly find the big Healeys four and six cylinder engines.  The Bu=
geye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it her putt-putt.  Tri=
umphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine.<br></p><p style=
=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 12pt;"><br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvet=
ica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">All this said, and certainly subjec=
t to any corrections you might have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked u=
p in races against these.  Anybody?<br></p><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, =
51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br></p=
><p style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f; font-size: 12pt;">Terry<br></p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 16, 201=
9 at 5:40 PM Randall <tr3driver@ca.rr.com> wrote: <br> <br><div cla=
ss=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordSection1"><p class=3D"o=
x-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">110 mph in 4<sup>th</su=
p> OD is only 4500 rpm.  Not what I call “crank shattering rpm&#=
8221;.  A stock TR3 won’t usually run that fast of course, but 8=
7mm liners were actually cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.  (I actual=
ly found a set that had been returned to Warshawski’s in Chicago, bet=
ter known as JC Whitney, for even less than the usual price.)</p><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">And I’ve run=
4500 for literally hours without a problem.  (Speed enforcement in th=
e desert tends to be lax <span style=3D"font-family: "Segoe UI Emoji&q=
uot;,sans-serif;">=F0=9F=98=8A</span> )</p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f=
5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f=
5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.=
com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=3D"ox-9e7d=
821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal"> </p><div style=3D"borde=
r-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rg=
b(225, 225, 225) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class=
=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNormal" style=3D"padding: =
0in; border: currentColor; border-image: none;"><strong>From: </strong><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:terryrs@comcast.net";>TERRY SMITH</a><br><strong>Sent: </stron=
g>Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM<br><strong>To: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:=
tr3driver@ca.rr.com">Randall</a><br><strong>Cc: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:=
triumphs@autox.team.net">Triumphs</a><br><strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR]=
MGA</p></div><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNorm=
al"> </p><p><span style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: "=
Helvetica",sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">That reminds me.  When I=
say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm referencing traffic on=
the freeway here (tollway, rather) that clips along between 70 and 80 mph.=
  I've been curious about the various cruising speeds and power pe=
rformances of TR3's and their competition back in the day, cruising tha=
t is without winding up to crank shattering rpm's.  Anybody famili=
ar with that? </span></p></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-=
ox-17f5f529b1-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: =
helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br> </p><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite">** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.tea=
m.net</a> ** <br> <br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>h=
ttp://www.team.net/donate.html</a> <br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.=
net/pipermail/triumphs">http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a href=
=3D"http://www.team.net/archive";>http://www.team.net/archive</a> <br> <br>U=
nsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumph=
s/terryrs@comcast.net">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/terry=
rs@comcast.net</a> <br></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1=
-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,ari=
al,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br> </p><div class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-=
ox-17f5f529b1-_stretch"><span class=3D"ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-body-tex=
t-content">** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net";>triumphs@autox.tea=
m.net</a> **<br><br>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>htt=
p://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net=
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ribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ryel=
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r></span></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><p class=3D"ox-9e7d821=
889-default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: helvetica,=
arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br> </p></div></blockquote></div>=
</blockquote><p class=3D"default-style" style=3D"color: rgb(51, 51, 51); fo=
nt-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br> </p><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite">** triumphs@autox.team.net ** <br> <br>Donate: http:/=
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=20
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