--===============8339166280908451448==
--000000000000c604cc058df6ded7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MGA Prototype, EX172 based on the MG TD.
http://www.classiccarportraits.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm
raced by MG at LeMans.
Triumphs and MGs did not generally race in the same class SCCA in the 50s,
though they would often be in the same combined class for races. Here is
the most comprehensive site I know of for fifties and sixties (the best!)
sports car racing
http://www.maseratiexperts.com/SCCA%20results%20test%20page.htm don't know
why this doesn't show up as a link, but worked when I copied and pasted,
scroll down for entry fields and results by year.
Of interest in 1968 the TR250 was very competitive with the then 2 liter
911 in C production SCCA, but they could not quite get it done in the
championship race
Greg Lemon
TR250
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:59 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman <tjwakeman@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:
>
> Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA=
.
> So what's wrong here? The year?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3D4&v=3Dp2qrOg8COx8
>
> Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes
>
>
>
> Ed
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> <ryel@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the racing
> heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is legendary. =
It
> all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1
> liter car. The link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of
> that car. At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the
> race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph. =
It
> was the smallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that
> started Porsche racing. If they had lost or not done well, history of
> Porsche would have been changed.
>
> The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through year=
s
> of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le Mans, and
> then they did an amazing job to restore it. The CEO of Kettle potato
> chips, he is the owner of the car.
>
>
> https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-pors=
che-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/
>
>
>
>
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net>
> <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Cool. Thanks, Rye. That's sort of what I'm asking. Engine size can be
> made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on. So the Spyder was 500 cc'=
s
> smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
>
> On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <ryel@mac.com> <ryel@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
> One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90
> produced, not a Speedster. It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a Carre=
ra
> engine with twin overhead cams, two separate ignition manifolds and two
> ignition coils. It was also a mid engine design like the 914 and the
> current Boxter and Cayman. So this car isn't comparable to a Triumph or
> MGA of that era.
>
>
> Rye
> 1960 TR3A
> 1963 356
> 1968 912
> 1988 911 Carrera
>
>
>
> On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net>
> <terryrs@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm. So looking quickly other street cars of the time, a 1959 Porsche
> 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the Porsche "speedster" =
or
> even if it was different, other than James Dean died in one. The 1959 MG=
A
> had a 1.6 liter. The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter engine. Karmann Ghia
> had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter engine. As far as I can tell the Fiat 85=
0
> started in 1964, with an engine a single strong man could seemingly lift.
> The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter. The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 liters=
.
> Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six cylinder engines. The
> Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it her putt-putt.
> Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine.
>
>
> All this said, and certainly subject to any corrections you might have, I
> remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races against these. Anybody?
>
>
> Terry
>
> On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <tr3driver@ca.rr.com>
> <tr3driver@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> 110 mph in 4th OD is only 4500 rpm. Not what I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shatt=
ering
> rpm=E2=80=9D. A stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t usually run that fast of course,=
but 87mm liners
> were actually cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s. (I actually found a set
> that had been returned to Warshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better known a=
s JC
> Whitney, for even less than the usual price.)
>
>
>
> And I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours without a problem. (Speed
> enforcement in the desert tends to be lax =C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5=A0 )
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *TERRY SMITH <terryrs@comcast.net>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
> *To: *Randall <tr3driver@ca.rr.com>
> *Cc: *Triumphs <triumphs@autox.team.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [TR] MGA
>
>
>
> That reminds me. When I say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm
> referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rather) that clips alon=
g
> between 70 and 80 mph. I've been curious about the various cruising spee=
ds
> and power performances of TR3's and their competition back in the day,
> cruising that is without winding up to crank shattering rpm's. Anybody
> familiar with that?
>
>
>
>
> ** triumphs@autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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> --
>
> Book - The Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and
> Canada <http://overlandtravel.us>
> 2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn what to writ=
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--000000000000c604cc058df6ded7
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">MGA Prototype, EX172 based on the MG TD.=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a h=
ref=3D"http://www.classiccarportraits.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm"; rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.classiccarportraits=
.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm</a><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">raced by MG at LeMans.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Triumphs and MGs did not generally=C2=A0 race in the same class SCCA i=
n the 50s, though they would often be in the same combined class for races.=
=C2=A0 Here is the most comprehensive site I know of for fifties and sixtie=
s (the best!) sports car racing <a href=3D"http://www.maseratiexperts.com/S=
CCA%20results%20test%20page.htm">http://www.maseratiexperts.com/SCCA%20resu=
lts%20test%20page.htm</a> don't know why this doesn't show up as a =
link, but worked when I copied and pasted, scroll down for entry fields and=
results by year.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Of int=
erest in 1968 the TR250 was very competitive with the then 2 liter 911 in C=
production SCCA, but they could not quite get it done in the championship =
race</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Greg Lemon</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">TR250</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"=
ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:59 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman =
<<a href=3D"mailto:tjwakeman@gmail.com"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">tjwakeman@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440moz-cite-prefix">On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
=20
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt">Well, in 1951 the
TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. So
what's wrong here? The year?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142359534=
943292440moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_=
continue=3D4&v=3Dp2qrOg8COx8" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3D4&v=3Dp=
2qrOg8COx8</a></p>
<p>Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt">Ed<br>
</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston
<a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:ryel@mac.com"; rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><ryel@mac.com></a> wrot=
e: <br>
<br>
<div>=C2=A0<br>
</div>
<div>I don't know the racing history of the two cars together,
but the racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger
horsepower cars is legendary.=C2=A0 It all started with a 356 in
1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car.=C2=A0 The
link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that
car.=C2=A0 At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo fr=
om
the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't
see a Triumph.=C2=A0 It was the smallest engine in the race,
and=C2=A0they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.=C2=
=A0 If
they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have
been changed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the
car, through years of research they were able to verify it was
the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing job to
restore it.=C2=A0 The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner
of the car.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href=3D"https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-ca=
rs/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/" rel=3D"noreferrer no=
referrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul=
ture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/</a></d=
iv>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH
<a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-9142359=
534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:terryrs@comcast.net"; rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><terryrs@comcast=
.net></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914=
2359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-msg-quote">
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica,arial,s=
ans-serif;font-size:12pt">Cool.=C2=A0
Thanks, Rye.=C2=A0 That's sort of what I'm asking.=
=C2=A0 Engine
size can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so
on.=C2=A0 So the Spyder was 500 cc's smaller than a Tri=
umph,
but significantly outperformed?<br>
</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye
Livingston <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-744849062969=
4657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:ryel@mac=
.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><ryel@m=
ac.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size=
:14px">One correction, James Dean died in
a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a
Speedster.=C2=A0 It had a=C2=A01.5 liter engine, but it=
was a
Carrera engine with twin overhead cams,=C2=A0<span styl=
e=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;white-spa=
ce:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">two
separate ignition manifolds=C2=A0and=C2=A0two ignitio=
n
coils.=C2=A0 It was also a mid engine design like the
914 and the current Boxter and Cayman.=C2=A0 So this
car isn't comparable to a=C2=A0Triumph or MGA of =
that
era.</span></span></div>
<div><span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none=
;text-indent:0px;font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;white-sp=
ace:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br>
</span></div>
=C2=A0
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Rye</span> <br>
<span style=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=
=3D"font-size:14px">1960 TR3A</span></span></div>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1963 3=
56</span></span></div>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1968 9=
12</span></span></div>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">1988 9=
11 Carrera</span></span></div>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-x-apple-signature"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:geneva,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div><br>
On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH
<a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_=
-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:terryrs@comcast.n=
et" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"><terryrs@=
comcast.net></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296946573=
24m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-msg-quote">
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Hmmm.=C2=A0
So looking quickly other street cars of the
time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter
engine; I don't know about the Porsche
"speedster" or even if it was different, =
other
than James Dean died in one.=C2=A0 The 1959 MGA had=
a
1.6 liter.=C2=A0 The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter
engine.=C2=A0 Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.=
3
liter engine.=C2=A0 As far as I can tell the Fiat 8=
50
started in 1964, with an engine a single strong
man could seemingly lift.=C2=A0 The Sunbeam Alpine
was a 1.5 liter.=C2=A0 The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.=
7
liters.=C2=A0 Couldn't quickly find the big Hea=
leys
four and six cylinder engines.=C2=A0 The Bugeye
Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it
her putt-putt.=C2=A0 Triumphs and Morgans, of cours=
e,
ran the same 2 liter engine.<br>
</p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">All
this said, and certainly subject to any
corrections you might have, I remain unsure how
Triumphs stacked up in races against these.=C2=A0
Anybody?<br>
</p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:helvetica=
,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Terry<br>
</p>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On July 16, 2019 at 5:40
PM Randall <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448=
490629694657324m_-9142359534943292440moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:=
tr3driver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank"><tr3driver@ca.rr.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-WordS=
ection1">
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">110
mph in 4<sup>th</sup> OD is only 4500 rpm.=C2=
=A0
Not what I call =E2=80=9Ccrank shattering rpm=
=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 A
stock TR3 won=E2=80=99t usually run that fast o=
f
course, but 87mm liners were actually
cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.=C2=A0 (I
actually found a set that had been returned
to Warshawski=E2=80=99s in Chicago, better know=
n as
JC Whitney, for even less than the usual
price.)</p>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">And
I=E2=80=99ve run 4500 for literally hours witho=
ut a
problem.=C2=A0 (Speed enforcement in the desert
tends to be lax <span style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">=C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5=A0</span>
)</p>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">Sent
from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink=
/?LinkId=3D550986" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">Mail</a> for
Windows 10</p>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;bord=
er-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor current=
Color;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296=
94657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-Mso=
Normal" style=3D"padding:0in;border:currentColor"><strong>From: </strong><a=
href=3D"mailto:terryrs@comcast.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">TERRY SMITH</a><br>
<strong>Sent: </strong>Tuesday, July 16,
2019 1:47 PM<br>
<strong>To: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:tr3dri=
ver@ca.rr.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">R=
andall</a><br>
<strong>Cc: </strong><a href=3D"mailto:triump=
hs@autox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">Triumphs</a><br>
<strong>Subject: </strong>Re: [TR] MGA</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694=
657324m_-9142359534943292440ox-9e7d821889-ox-17f5f529b1-ox-cc84e2b33b-MsoNo=
rmal">=C2=A0</p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family=
:"Helvetica",sans-serif;font-size:12pt">That reminds me.=C2=A0 Wh=
en I
say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic,"=
I'm
referencing traffic on the freeway here
(tollway, rather) that clips along between
70 and 80 mph.=C2=A0 I've been curious ab=
out
the various cruising speeds and power
performances of TR3's and their
competition back in the day, cruising that
is without winding up to crank shattering
rpm's.=C2=A0 Anybody familiar with that?=
=C2=A0</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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=C2=A0</p>
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<pre class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-914235953=
4943292440moz-quote-pre">** <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-74484906296=
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ank">triumphs@autox.team.net</a> **
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el=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.n=
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w.team.net/pipermail/triumphs</a> <a class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448=
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</pre>
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<p><br>
</p>
<div class=3D"m_5351892489354669747m_-7448490629694657324m_-91423595349=
43292440moz-signature">-- <br>
<p align=3D"center"><a href=3D"http://overlandtravel.us"; rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Book - The
Essential Guide to Overland Travel in the United States and
Canada</a>
<br>
2 years to write and 38 years of travel and camping to learn
what to write<br>
<br>
<b>Because the world beckons and life waits for no one</b></p>
</div>
</div>
** <a href=3D"mailto:triumphs@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer =
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