--===============1624457076881323722==
--000000000000dbd4fd058fd9d848
Yes exactly right.
By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up with a
good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.
So far I have not.
Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the
laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to
grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.
I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered
roller bearing. I would be interested in giving it a try.
Glenn
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com> wrote:
> Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.
> It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell bearings
> obviously but too common with the pressed only.
> I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove anyway.
> In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, it's
> exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above by
> the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust
> washer and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.
> I share your pain...
> Glen
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Franco <brakey6666@gmail.com>
> To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
> Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo@gmail.com>; FOT list <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.
>
> Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D
> transmissions.
> Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loose
> needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I have
> been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions.
> The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along the
> shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the
> smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the
> remaining will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed
> soon enough.
> The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is
> getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to
> remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer
> needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case.
> When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its almost
> impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.
> Glenn with 2 n's
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com> wrote:
>
> That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.
>
> Glen with 1 "n".
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> To: Glenn Franco <brakey6666@gmail.com>
> Cc: FOT list <fot@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.
>
> Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is
> more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?
> Thanks
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I
> do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or
> maybe 2.
> I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing
> next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the
> thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that
> ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes
> get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is
> sent to scrap.
> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear out.
> The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so you
> can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to a "
> Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get it out.
> Didn't end well however.
> I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on
> that end which would make more sense than the original design.
> Please advise
> Thanks in advance
> Glenn
> TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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>
>
>
--000000000000dbd4fd058fd9d848
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing this post, I =
was actually hoping that someone had come up with a good method or tool to =
get that bugger out of the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </div><div>It=
s hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear=
when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a=
slot in the bearing shell to remove it.</div><div>I would appreciate it if=
someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing.=C2=A0I wo=
uld be interested in giving it a try.</div><div>Glenn =C2=A0<br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Su=
n, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com";>fub=
og1@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204=
,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black;font-=
size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.</font></d=
iv>
<div><font size=3D"2">It's not an issue with the circlip gears converte=
d to the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.</fo=
nt></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a=
bitch to remove anyway.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">In addition to the high load on the rear of the layge=
ar & bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal g=
enerated directly above by the graunching going into 1st & reverse, tha=
t stuff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washe=
r & the case.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">I share your pain...</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco <<a href=3D"mailto:brakey6666@gmail.com"; target=3D"_b=
lank">brakey6666@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: fubog1 <<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank">fubog1@a=
ol.com</a>><br>
Cc: John Styduhar <<a href=3D"mailto:johnstydo@gmail.com"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">johnstydo@gmail.com</a>>; FOT list <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.t=
eam.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transm=
issions.</div>
<div>Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the lo=
ose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I h=
ave been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. </div>
<div>The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along =
the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the s=
maller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining=
will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enou=
gh.</div>
<div>The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is=
getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to=
remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer =
needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case. </d=
iv>
<div>When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its alm=
ost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.</di=
v>
<div>Glenn with 2 n's<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt3486745670" id=3D"=
gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041yqt55485">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_attr" dir=3D"lt=
r">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer=
" shape=3D"rect">fubog1@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204=
,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
<div style=3D"font:10pt/normal Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black;font-=
size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal">
<div> <font size=3D"2">That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.</fon=
t></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen with 1 "n".</font></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt">-----=
Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: John Styduhar via Fot <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rec=
t">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
To: Glenn Franco <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">brakey66=
66@gmail.com</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Cc: FOT list <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.te=
am.net</a>><br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217=
780yiv5940175818">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">Glenn, are you =
saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is more prevalent wh=
en the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 Thanks</div>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv74423=
28041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt95968">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM =
Glenn Franco via Fot <<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@=
autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_510215=
4560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pa=
dding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;bor=
der-left-style:solid">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for par=
ts or maybe 2.</div>
<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through th=
e thrust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one =
that ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I somet=
imes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear =
is sent to scrap.</div>
<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear =
out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so y=
ou can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to=
=C2=A0a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the layg=
ear to get it out. Didn't end well however.</div>
<div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on=
that end which would make more sense than the original design.</div>
<div>Please advise</div>
<div>Thanks in advance</div>
<div>Glenn</div>
<div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</=
div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a><br cle=
ar=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a>=
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
onate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">
Archive: <a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.ne=
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.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
//autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/johnstydo@gmail.com</a><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421=
217780yqt2634990127" id=3D"gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_=
5102154560421217780yqt13738">______________________________________________=
_<br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect">fot@autox=
.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a rel=3D"noopener noref=
errer" shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div>
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