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RE: New lister, query on TR6 jacking

To: Steve Chandler <chand@primenet.com>, "'Justin Wagner'" <jmwagner@greenheart.com>
Subject: RE: New lister, query on TR6 jacking
From: Gernot Vonhoegen <gernot.vonhoegen@stir.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:55:12 +0100 charset="iso-8859-1"
Cc: triumphs@Autox.Team.Net
Well, you are right in what you are saying about the gauge of the
rubbers and I certainly agree that they were jacked up when they were
new, but I have to say that the crossbar in not a heavy gauge and the
cars have experienced some wear and use and, of course you can jack it
up where you want, but I for my part take the extra work and jack it up
on the stronger chassis rail. And I don't think this is misplaced at
all.

Gernot

> ----------
> From:         Justin Wagner[SMTP:jmwagner@greenheart.com]
> Reply To:     Justin Wagner
> Sent:         Sunday, April 05, 1998 10:10 PM
> To:   Steve Chandler
> Cc:   triumphs@autox.team.net
> Subject:      Re: New lister, query on TR6 jacking
> 
> 
> Steve...
> 
> Have you ever held one of those bushings in your hand?  Have you ever
> looked at a IRS frame, with the body off? 
> 
> How can you say they're "not designed to carry this sort of weight".  
> 
> Think about the sort of strains those bushings encounter when you
> throw
> down that gas pedal! And with your outer axles thumping up and down
> and
> your drive down a rough road...   No, it's not a live axle... but if
> the
> differential weren't encountering strains... they would have mounted
> them in garden-hose washers.... 
> 
> When you're jacking a car... it's a gentle slow process...   Those
> bushings can handle it... the load is spread amongst 8 thick solid
> bushings!!!!  the structure can handle it... it's the same piece of
> steel that handles your springs and suspension!!!  And once the car is
> in the air, it's put on jack stands... so it's not even being kept on
> that weight for very long.   
> 
> Honestly, I would just let this ride... but when I think of some
> percentage of the newsgroup falling for some misplaced theory about
> the
> dangers of jacking a car by the differential... I feel a need to say
> something... 
> 
> If you have two jacks... and no floor jack... by all means... jack up
> the outside rails... as you suggested... but if you have a floor
> jack...
> (every shop should have one)... and you'd rather spend time working on
> your car, than jacking it... just jack the diff and lower the car down
> on a pair of jackstands... and be done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Justin
> 
> 
> Steve Chandler wrote:
> > 
> > I have to disagree with your theory here. When you lift a TR6 on the
> > differential you are compressing the bushings which were not
> designed
> > to carry this sort of weight. I dont know if the mounting are strong
> > enough or not, but the bushings will certainly be abused by this.
> > 
> > Also I do not know how you can say this is less stress than driving
> > the car. This is not a live axle, there is very little stress on the
> > diff itself when driving.
> > 
> > I would still recommend jacking up on the chassis rails with a piece
> > of wood between the jack and the frame, and if you have 2 jacks do
> > both sides at the same time, to minimize frame twisting.
> > 
> > Not a flame, just my $0.02.
> > 
> > cheers
> > 
> > steve
> > 
> > Justin Wagner wrote:
> > >
> > > jonmac wrote:
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > > Many people use the diff for lifting as it is central. That does
> not mean
> > > > it is a wise thing to do. There's a risk you might pop the diff
> mounting
> > > > bolts through the top of the chassis....(snip)...
> > >
> > > I would differ with you on this...
> > >
> > > When you jack up the differential... you are NOT jacking up the
> mounting
> > > studs... you are jacking up the BUSHED differential... which
> spreads the
> > > weight across the structure very nicely... with little stress on
> the
> > > studs themselves...  In edition, there is not much SHEER strain on
> them
> > > when lifting.
> > >
> > > The stresses encountered by the differential and it's mountings,
> while
> > > jacking, are far less than anything they encounter on any given
> drive
> > > around town, with speed bumps and potholes... If jacking your car
> by the
> > > differential causes a mounting stud to "pop" through the
> chassis...I
> > > would say, "BETTER TO FIND OUT NOW, THAN WHILE DRIVING AT SPEED,
> ANd
> > > HITTING A BUMP"...
> > >
> > > Jacking "side to side"... takes time... and I would argue, the
> more
> > > messing around one does while jacking a car exposes you to more
> > > danger...  and it is human nature that people will tend to try to
> speed
> > > things up, by going up in higher intervals... leaving one side of
> the
> > > car jacked up inches higher than the other...
> > > Which again... exposes you to yet even more danger... AND... for
> those
> > > concerned with damaging there car... this does put a lot of strain
> on
> > > the car when flexed like that.
> > >
> > > I've jacked up TR 4A's, in the rear, with floor jacks under the
> > > differential since 1977. I never experienced a broken stud... (on
> my
> > > IRS) about 8 years... nor do I have any problems with my solid
> axle
> > > 4A...  (When IRS studs snap... it's because they're rusty and/or
> already
> > > have a stress fracture, etc.)  And my brother and I, the mechanics
> in
> > > the family, have jacked up the family cars over the years...
> 280zx,
> > > Jensen Heally, Jaguar XJ 6, Corvette Stingray, Mustang Mach I, 280
> zx
> > > Turbo, TR 7, Camaro, Ford LTD. Station WAgon with 429, and more...
> all
> > > by the rear differential.
> > >
> > > Jacking by the differential is safe.  Safe for the car, safe for
> the guy
> > > under the car.  My humble opinion...  others are welcome to
> comment.
> > >
> > > --Justin
> > 
> > --
> > Steve Chandler - Chandler-O'Bagy Associates stevec@rtd.com
> 

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