Disclaimer: burn before reading Danger warning will robinson...
These cars have an area under the body, in the pan location, a zone which
speeds up the air. This causes the major portion of the down force on all
these cars. The problems come when the car looses that under car flow they
can get airborne in a hurry. The Mercedes has done it twice and the Porsche
at least once. Just driving (yeah right 180 or so) and doing a blow over or
leaving the track like a leaf. Most wings on cars are for directional
stability by causing drag. The normal shape of a car causes lift. So the
underbody treatment is very important. Higher velocity, lower pressure,
downforce.
Disclaimer over.
At 09:08 AM 6/15/00 -0700, Dan Warner wrote:
>Actually F1, CART, IRL all are flat bottom cars currently. There is max aero
>on the sides and top. I, personally don't have an accurate count of
>streamliners round, square, flat bottom or ground effected. I threw that out
>based on Ken's statement, just trying tp start new threads.
>
>Dan Warner
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
>To: Jim Dincau <jdincau@qnet.com>; Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>;
><land-speed@autox.team.net>
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 8:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Flying Streamliners
>
>
>> OK, but don't Indy, CART and F-1 cars have ground effects? And aren't they
>> turning corners all the time and some at very high speeds?
>>
>> Ken Walkey may be right with his statement, but I still fail to understand
>> why?
>>
>> How many Streamlines have run on the salt with ground effects? Did they
>all
>> fly? How many without ground effects have flown?
>>
>> John Beckett, LSR #79
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Dincau" <jdincau@qnet.com>
>> To: "Dan Warner" <dwarner@electrorent.com>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 10:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: Flying Streamliners
>>
>>
>> > Hi Dan;
>> > Here is my input. In 1990 I talked my partners Ken Logan and Jerry
>> > Jones into trying ground effects for traction instead of lead. We took
>> all
>> > the lead out (about 800 lbs. I think) and I built skirts for the sides.
>> With
>> > the slope on the underside of the car and tapering up from 36 in wide at
>> the
>> > firewall to 40 inches wide at the back end the aero guys at Lockheed
>> > thought the resulting diffuser would produce about 1200 pounds of
>> downforce.
>> > First run Jerry hits a wet spot at about 220 an it swaps ends so fast he
>> > can't catch it. The car went around 5 times, it turns out that the
>ground
>> > effects worked just great till the car got a little sideways and the
>> airflow
>> > through the tunnel stalled.
>> > Wings and tunnels add traction with a drag penalty and that
>penalty
>> > increases with the square of the speed. Lead adds traction with an
>> > acceleration penalty but it is constant and doesn't go away when the
>> airflow
>> > is less than ideal. If I were building a streamliner it would be front
>> > engined, front wheel drive to get the maximum weight on the drive
>wheels.
>> > Aero managed downforce is neat if you have to turn and accelerate at the
>> > same time, we don't.
>> >
>> > Jim in Palmdale, who's rocket scientist reputation was enhanced by the
>> above
>> > incident.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>
>> > To: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
>> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 10:33 AM
>> > Subject: Flying Streamliners
>> >
>> >
>> > > Interesting conversation concerning streamliners. Ken Walky stated
>that
>> > > there had never been a ground effects streamliner that did not fly.
>> > > Accumulated wisdom could not refute Ken's theory.
>> > >
>> > > We had to define ground effects as a lifting surface on top of the car
>> > > and/or tunnels or some such device under the car(non-flat bottom).
>> > >
>> > > Any comments?
>> > >
>> > > Dan (looking for air) Warner
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
L.E. Mayfield
124 Maximillion Drive
Madison, Al. 35758-8171
ph: 1-256-837-1051
http://home.hiwaay.net/~lemay
lemay@hiwaay.net
Sunbeam Tiger, B9471136
Sunbeam Alpine Bonneville Land Speed Racer,
'66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE)
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