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Re: [Mgs] Speed Bleeders

To: dave <dave@ranteer.com>, MG list mail everyone <mgs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speed Bleeders
From: Max Heim via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 19:57:40 -0700
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mgs@autox.team.net
References: <1M1psI-1ja28R39GS-002K8D@mail.gmx.com> <421D6929-FC65-4CBE-8AE9-11CF7466D6A2@sonic.net> <6E8D517D90614AA8B76D7F9BAF005BB1@paul> <BCE6676C-6A17-4D23-B95C-94EBAEC811B6@sonic.net> <6F3596F3-D2F4-41EB-950A-32925C2AA49B@ur.rochester.edu> <008001d63173$b2d0b270$18721750$@ranteer.com>
--===============2134171836910210118==
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--Apple-Mail=_3BFBE646-B8D0-4663-AF5C-EDDC782A72FB
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Sorry, I think this went sidewise. I wasn=E2=80=99t talking about SPEED =
bleeders, just stupidly sized bleed screws in general.

--
Max Heim
mvheim@sonic.net



> On May 23, 2020, at 7:33 PM, dave via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=20
> Funny.  I=E2=80=99ve been using them for years on a dozen different =
cars and always had good results.
> =20
> From: Mgs <mgs-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Osborne, Paul via =
Mgs
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:25 PM
> To: Max Heim <mvheim@sonic.net>
> Cc: mgs@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Mgs] Speed Bleeders
> =20
> When they first came out I tried a set, I threw them away for all the =
same reasons. =20
> =20
> paul o
> =20
> =20
>> On May 23, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Max Heim via Mgs <Mgs@autox.team.net =
>> =20
>> They need to be tight enough not to leak while someone is pumping the =
brakes. You can=E2=80=99t bleed with a socket on it. The problem is that =
the crappy bleed screws that are inappropriately metric because they are =
made in Asia also have crappy threads, a crappy seat, and are made of =
crappy metal.=20
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>> On May 23, 2020, at 12:57 AM, PaulHunt73 via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net =
>>=20
>>> On both of mine the clutch and caliper nipples are the same hex =
size.
>>> =20
>>> Wheel cylinders are quite a bit smaller so not surprising the bleed =
nipples are smaller.
>>> =20
>>> How tight do you need them to be?  If they round-off it's the screw =
that is the problem.  Use a socket for initial loosening and final =
tightening, in my 3/8" drive socket set they go down to 4mm and 3/16".
>>> =20
>>> PaulH.
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>>> ----- Original Message -----=20
>>>> =20
>>>> I can see why =E2=80=94 it is a uselessly tiny size. Appropriate =
for fine instruments, perhaps, but seriously undersized for anything =
that needs actual tightening, like a bleed screw.=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
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>>=20
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> =20
>> Paul Osborne
>> Department of Electrical and Computer Eng
>> University of Rochester=20
>> 201 Hopeman Building RC
>> Rochester NY 14627
>>=20
>    585-275-5226
> =20
> =20
> =20
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html =
<http://www.team.net/donate.html>
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>=20
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs =
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>=20
> Unsubscribe: =
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--Apple-Mail=_3BFBE646-B8D0-4663-AF5C-EDDC782A72FB
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Sorry, I think this went sidewise. I wasn=E2=80=99t talking =
about SPEED bleeders, just stupidly sized bleed screws in general.<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">--</div><div class=3D"">Max Heim</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:mvheim@sonic.net"; class=3D"">mvheim@sonic.net</a></div><div=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">

</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On May 23, 2020, at 7:33 PM, dave via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; class=3D"">mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Funny.&nbsp; I=E2=80=99ve been using them for years on a =
dozen different cars and always had good results.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, =
225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
class=3D"">mgs-bounces@autox.team.net</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Osborne, Paul =
via Mgs<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Saturday, May 23, 2020 8:25 =
PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Max Heim &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mvheim@sonic.net"; class=3D"">mvheim@sonic.net</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; class=3D"">mgs@autox.team.net</a><br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Mgs] Speed =
Bleeders<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">When they first came out I tried a set, I threw them away for =
all the same reasons.&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">paul o<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div =
class=3D""><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" =
class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">On May 23, 2020, at 7:07 PM, Max Heim via Mgs &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;" class=3D"">Mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">They need to be tight =
enough not to leak while someone is pumping the brakes. You can=E2=80=99t =
bleed with a socket on it. The problem is that the crappy bleed screws =
that are inappropriately metric because they are made in Asia also have =
crappy threads, a crappy seat, and are made of crappy metal.&nbsp;<br =
style=3D"font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></span><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Sent from my iPhone<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
 style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 13.5pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><br class=3D"">On May 23, 2020, at 12:57 AM, =
PaulHunt73 via Mgs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">mgs@autox.team.net</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=3D"" =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">On both of mine the =
clutch and caliper nipples are the same hex size.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Wheel cylinders are quite a bit smaller so not =
surprising the bleed nipples are smaller.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">How tight do you need&nbsp;them to be?&nbsp; If =
they round-off it's the screw that is the problem.&nbsp; Use a socket =
for initial loosening and final tightening, in&nbsp;my 3/8" drive socket =
set they go down to 4mm and 3/16".</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">PaulH.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style=3D"border-style: =
none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: =
black; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt;" class=3D"" =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">----- Original Message -----<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">I can see why =E2=80=94 it is a uselessly tiny =
size. Appropriate for fine instruments, perhaps, but seriously =
undersized for anything that needs actual tightening, like a bleed =
screw.<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; font-variant-caps: normal; =
text-align: start; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" =
class=3D"" type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br class=3D"">Donate:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.net=
_donate.html&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZ=
hHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzH=
akeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DNbcLJLK5oUGSMSU-lls0nOfhoaSzDL=
lfzqU4rRvn4FI&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br =
class=3D"">Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Archive:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.net=
_pipermail_mgs&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaq=
QZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyq=
zHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3D4ajl8uA5q3ayIesUN0JNZ2KHSVFH=
JSJSGYxsYgOh72M&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.team.n=
et_archive&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhH=
bOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzHak=
eNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DqZWrWwL9nLRXuNlW-ypaw7uK6tfAl4ZD=
OcDhG5XDZAE&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Unsubscribe:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.team.n=
et_mailman_options_mgs_mvheim-40sonic.net&amp;d=3DDwMFaQ&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yo=
jg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_=
Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3D4=
PDgTuhu8ENLDMDU32WuRwwwng0NhRfzib23CKoQdow&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/mvheim@sonic.net</a><=
o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br=
 class=3D""><br class=3D""></span><a href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Mgs@autox.team.net</span></a><span style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Donate:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.net=
_donate.html&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZ=
hHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzH=
akeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DNbcLJLK5oUGSMSU-lls0nOfhoaSzDL=
lfzqU4rRvn4FI&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.=
net_donate.html&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2ea=
qQZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFy=
qzHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DNbcLJLK5oUGSMSU-lls0nOfhoaS=
zDLlfzqU4rRvn4FI&amp;e=3D</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Archive:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.net=
_pipermail_mgs&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaq=
QZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyq=
zHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3D4ajl8uA5q3ayIesUN0JNZ2KHSVFH=
JSJSGYxsYgOh72M&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.team.=
net_pipermail_mgs&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2=
eaqQZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysL=
FyqzHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3D4ajl8uA5q3ayIesUN0JNZ2KHS=
VFHJSJSGYxsYgOh72M&amp;e=3D</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.team.n=
et_archive&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhH=
bOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzHak=
eNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DqZWrWwL9nLRXuNlW-ypaw7uK6tfAl4ZD=
OcDhG5XDZAE&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.tea=
m.net_archive&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQ=
ZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqz=
HakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp;s=3DqZWrWwL9nLRXuNlW-ypaw7uK6tfAl=
4ZDOcDhG5XDZAE&amp;e=3D</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D"">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Unsubscribe:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.team.n=
et_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3Dkbm=
fwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5ZUD=
fHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&amp=
;s=3DTCu0pSYmQslAAIXb88zvcFYqRJbX7KHG2f7Y2mmW97s&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color:=
 blue; text-decoration: underline;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__autox.tea=
m.net_mailman_options_mgs_paul-40ece.rochester.edu&amp;d=3DDwICAg&amp;c=3D=
kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&amp;r=3Dj_uK0-rtrtcKZ8O0aGq-Y5=
ZUDfHjCD_Cv57WMn_czag&amp;m=3DysLFyqzHakeNZYJhWf9gcyqHGtsTgkd1Zj7xqPr4nes&=
amp;s=3DTCu0pSYmQslAAIXb88zvcFYqRJbX7KHG2f7Y2mmW97s&amp;e=3D</span></a><o:=
p class=3D""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=3D"" =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" class=3D"">Paul Osborne<br =
class=3D"">Department of Electrical and Computer Eng<br =
class=3D"">University of Rochester&nbsp;<br class=3D"">201 Hopeman =
Building RC<br class=3D"">Rochester NY 14627<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquo=
te><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;" =
class=3D"">&nbsp; &nbsp;585-275-5226</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div></div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=3D"">Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Donate:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Suggested annual donation &nbsp;$12.75</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Archive:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">http://www.team.net/pipermail/mgs</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; =
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