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Not sure about the aerodynamics of that front end on the Apex. Looks like =
lots of lift at speed.
Gary On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:54:14 AM MDT, Jay Laifman via Tiger=
s <tigers@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
Wow.=C2=A0 Thanks Buck.=C2=A0 I've never heard of the Apex (at least that =
I can remember).=C2=A0 Just did a search and came up with these great pictu=
res and info.=C2=A0 Love the hardtop!
http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/Mercia/killeen_book/node13.html=C2=A0=C2=A0
On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 11:30 AM Buck Trippel via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.=
net> wrote:
The best and most authoritative answers to the why the Tiger was discontinu=
ed that I=E2=80=99ve found are in the collection of Papworth papers housed =
in the Culture Coventry Archive at the Herbert Museum in Coventry.
=C2=A0
Mr Papworth was a very high level =E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D for Rootes. He =
reported to a very select group, comprised mainly of family members who wer=
e the heart of the Rootes board. After his retirement he donated thousands(=
?) of pages of notes and memos. I=E2=80=99ve spent several days reading the=
m and want to go back.=20
=C2=A0
Mr. Papworth lays out a very comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger represent=
ed only 2% of Rootes=E2=80=99 sales and was consequentially just a blip on =
management=E2=80=99s attention. Tigers were barely mentioned in board meeti=
ngs as the high production Imps and Hillmans dominated the discussions. The=
Mk1s & 1As sold well. The Mk2 that was built was not the Mk2 that the engi=
neers had designed and tested (with upgraded 5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheels to f=
it 4-wheel discs, the same 3-puck calipers used on Aston Martins and street=
Cobras) and the resulting lack of initial sales seemed to be the straw tha=
t broke the camel=E2=80=99s back. But Papworth also outlines other contribu=
ting issues.=20
=C2=A0
Rootes engineers determined that Chrysler V8s would not fit in a Tiger. The=
y explored alternatives including one that would have been built a new =E2=
=80=9CTiger=E2=80=9D with fiberglass body in the USA. Obviously none of tho=
se alternatives worked out.
=C2=A0
After Lord Rootes passed away his brother, Reggie, assumed control. Reggie =
wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger with a smaller sportscar that was simila=
r to a Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=9CApex=E2=80=9D, had been designed and wa=
s very close to production when a sub-contractor tripled the initial cost e=
stimate for its fiberglass body. That ended Rootes=E2=80=99 attempt at a re=
placement sportscar.
=C2=A0
The US government had long imposed standards for the cars it purchased for =
government use =E2=80=93 the GSA standards. These existing GSA standards we=
re eventually adopted for all cars sold in the US. The Alpine/Tiger platfor=
m would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling for these would have been c=
ostly on a per unit basis due to low production volume.=20
=C2=A0
The space used at Pressed Steel to build the Alpines and Tigers was needed =
by another Rootes vehicle which was high production and therefore a higher =
priority. Assuming Rootes would accept the cost of upgrades to comply with =
GSA standards, where could the Alpine/Tiger be built? Rootes looked at alte=
rnatives including moving the entire Alpine/Tiger production from Pressed S=
teel to Jensen. At one point Rootes even offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen=
refused. The move never happened. Rootes never found an alternate contract=
or to build the cars.
=C2=A0
Papworth cites all of these factors in the decision to end Tiger production=
.
=C2=A0
Buck Trippel
=20
=C2=A0
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Ross Hulse via Ti=
gers
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM
To: Curt Bowland <cbowland@msn.com>
Cc: tigers <tigers@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Urban legend
=C2=A0
The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger was that they did not sell very well.=C2=A0=
The USA import regs for cars would require expensive modifications to the =
car.=C2=A0 So in February 1967 the decision was made to finish the cars tha=
t were in the line and send them to Canada.=C2=A0 Everything about not fitt=
ing a Chrysler engine is just a=C2=A0rumor.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
tigers@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail=
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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers http://autox.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/maliburevue@yahoo=
.com
=20
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<div> Not sure about the aerodynamics of that front end on t=
he Apex. Looks like lots of lift at speed.<br><br>Gary </div> =
<div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"margin: 10px 0px 0px 0.8ex; p=
adding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width:=
1px; border-left-style: solid;"> <div style=3D'colo=
r: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-s=
erif; font-size: 13px;'> <div> =
On Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 12:54:14 AM MDT, Jay Laifman via Tigers &=
lt;tigers@autox.team.net> wrote: </div> <d=
iv><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><div id=3D=
"yiv0350947643"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Wow. Thanks Buck. I've ne=
ver heard of the Apex (at least that I can remember). Just did a sear=
ch and came up with these great pictures and info. Love the hardtop!<=
div><br clear=3D"none"></div><div><a href=3D"http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/Mercia/=
killeen_book/node13.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect"=
>http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/Mercia/killeen_book/node13.html</a> </div><div=
> <br clear=3D"none"></div></div><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"yiv0=
350947643gmail_quote"><div class=3D"yiv0350947643yqt2499538060" id=3D"yiv03=
50947643yqt55116"><div class=3D"yiv0350947643gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun=
, Mar 8, 2020 at 11:30 AM Buck Trippel via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tig=
ers@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymail=
to=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br=
clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv0350947643gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(20=
4, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div lang=
=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"yiv0350947643gmail-m_5180423360813125264WordSectio=
n1"><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">The best and most authoritative ans=
wers to the why the Tiger was discontinued that I=E2=80=99ve found are in t=
he collection of Papworth papers housed in the Culture Coventry Archive at =
the Herbert Museum in Coventry.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643M=
soNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">Mr Pa=
pworth was a very high level =E2=80=9Cplanner=E2=80=9D for Rootes. He repor=
ted to a very select group, comprised mainly of family members who were the=
heart of the Rootes board. After his retirement he donated thousands(?) of=
pages of notes and memos. I=E2=80=99ve spent several days reading them and=
want to go back. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u>=
</u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">Mr. Papworth lays =
out a very comprehensive Tiger story. The Tiger represented only 2% of Root=
es=E2=80=99 sales and was consequentially just a blip on management=E2=80=
=99s attention. Tigers were barely mentioned in board meetings as the high =
production Imps and Hillmans dominated the discussions. The Mk1s & 1As =
sold well. The Mk2 that was built was not the Mk2 that the engineers had de=
signed and tested (with upgraded 5-bolt 14=E2=80=9D wheels to fit 4-wheel d=
iscs, the same 3-puck calipers used on Aston Martins and street Cobras) and=
the resulting lack of initial sales seemed to be the straw that broke the =
camel=E2=80=99s back. But Papworth also outlines other contributing issues.=
<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u>=
</p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">Rootes engineers determined that Ch=
rysler V8s would not fit in a Tiger. They explored alternatives including o=
ne that would have been built a new =E2=80=9CTiger=E2=80=9D with fiberglass=
body in the USA. Obviously none of those alternatives worked out.<u></u><u=
></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">After Lord Rootes passed away his brother, Re=
ggie, assumed control. Reggie wanted to replace the Alpine/Tiger with a sma=
ller sportscar that was similar to a Spitfire. That car, =E2=80=9CApex=E2=
=80=9D, had been designed and was very close to production when a sub-contr=
actor tripled the initial cost estimate for its fiberglass body. That ended=
Rootes=E2=80=99 attempt at a replacement sportscar.<u></u><u></u></p><p cl=
ass=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv03509=
47643MsoNormal">The US government had long imposed standards for the cars i=
t purchased for government use =E2=80=93 the GSA standards. These existing =
GSA standards were eventually adopted for all cars sold in the US. The Alpi=
ne/Tiger platform would have needed upgrades to comply. Tooling for these w=
ould have been costly on a per unit basis due to low production volume. <u>=
</u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">The space used at Pressed Steel to buil=
d the Alpines and Tigers was needed by another Rootes vehicle which was hig=
h production and therefore a higher priority. Assuming Rootes would accept =
the cost of upgrades to comply with GSA standards, where could the Alpine/T=
iger be built? Rootes looked at alternatives including moving the entire Al=
pine/Tiger production from Pressed Steel to Jensen. At one point Rootes eve=
n offered to purchase Jensen. Jensen refused. The move never happened. Root=
es never found an alternate contractor to build the cars.<u></u><u></u></p>=
<p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv=
0350947643MsoNormal">Papworth cites all of these factors in the decision to=
end Tiger production.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"=
><u></u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal">Buck Trippel<u=
></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p c=
lass=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv0350=
947643MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers-bounces@a=
utox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:tigers-bounces@autox.team.net";>tigers-bounces@autox.team.net</a>>=
; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ross Hulse via Tigers<br clear=3D"none"><b>Sent:</b> =
Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:57 AM<br clear=3D"none"><b>To:</b> Curt Bowland <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:cbowland@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" sha=
pe=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:cbowland@msn.com";>cbowland@msn.com</a>><br=
clear=3D"none"><b>Cc:</b> tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tig=
ers@autox.team.net">tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"none"><b>Subj=
ect:</b> Re: [Tigers] Urban legend<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"yiv03509476=
43MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"yiv0350947643Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size: 24pt;">The demise of the Sunbeam Tiger wa=
s that they did not sell very well. The USA import regs for cars woul=
d require expensive modifications to the car. So in February 1967 the=
decision was made to finish the cars that were in the line and send them t=
o Canada. Everything about not fitting a Chrysler engine is just a</s=
pan> <span style=3D"font-size: 24pt;">rumor. </span><u></u><u></u=
></p></div></div><p class=3D"yiv0350947643MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></=
p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"n=
one"><br clear=3D"none"><a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect" ymailto=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team=
.net">tigers@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none">Donate=
: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"none">=
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers"; target=3D"_blank"=
rel=3D"nofollow" shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers</a> <=
a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow"=
shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br clear=3D"none"><br cle=
ar=3D"none">Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/t=
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ct">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/jay.laifman@gmail.com</a><=
br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></blockquote></div>=
</div></div></div><div class=3D"yqt2499538060" id=3D"yqt87604">____________=
___________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a=
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