Bill...
Your comments relative to the one-off Peyote, are similar to what Bob Wismer
and I experienced with the Thunder Bolt. There was only one Thunder Bolt, and
its chassis and drive train ended up under a Talisman body (a Tornado Cars
"works decision" when the Talisman was introduced). We assumed that we then
had the original Thunder Bolt body, which someone had mounted on a small lorry
chassis, with a Standard (not TR) drive train. That's what we started with,
and with Bill Woodhouse and Tony Bullen's help (the original Tornado Cars
manufacturers) we built a true Thunder Bolt chassis, and put in a TR4 drive
train. We took other liberties as well (mostly for personal convenience). We
wanted stuff we were familiar with. But also performance enhancements. The
original Thunder Bolt (1,650 pounds +/-) had a torquey TR3 engine and 9" drum
brakes. It took off like an airplane, but would not stop or turn. First we
put Jaguar disc brakes on all four corners, but that was overkill, and we
changed to TR4 disc brakes. But the Thunder Bolt was so rare, no one knew what
was right and what was wrong. So Bob and I had an agreement. One of us would
lie, and the other would swear to it.
It was no big deal, as we never drove that car anywhere near as fast as it
would go. Too scary. At the end of Road America's front straight, it used to
want to 'take off'. You could turn the steering wheel, but the car didn't seem
to change direction. It was like the front wheels were off the ground. One
time we let John Harkness drive it in a short practice session at Mid-Ohio.
First time in the car, he was about 5-10% faster than the laps Bob or I were
turning. His comment getting out of the car, was something like, "WOW! I
wasn't really trying. There's PLENTY left."
There's FAST CARS and there's FAST DRIVERS.
Bill Dentinger
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill <Bill at ponostyle.com>
To: Bill Dentinger <billdentin at aol.com>
Cc: kaskastner <kaskastner at gmail.com>; fot <fot at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 9, 2018 11:54 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
Peyote has genuine Girling calipers that look pretty much like the lead boat
anchors, but they are cast aluminum. As I recall they came from some GP car and
are rare as hen?s teeth, more than a bit fragile, and bend enough to taper the
bejesus out of the pads if you get enthusiastic, and have a very loose grip on
any threads cut into them. I?d rather use Wilwoods, and I could probably get
away with them most places. I have a set that came from my ridiculous NASCAR
TR3, but nah.
Cheater is a relative term in vintage racing. If you?re doing something
egregious to push yourself to the front of the pack, then yeah, you?re a
cheater. If you?re just tired of replacing the part that breaks every time you
miss a shift or hit a hard bump, then maybe not so much. I?d rather the guy
trying to outbrake me coming into the chicane have calipers that work than
something ?legal?. But that?s me. Peyote is an easy car to cheat with. Who
knows what it originally had. I?ve resisted the temptation more or less,
because it already works really well. I like to run tires that grip
predictably?call me crazy?but I?m willing to skate around on Dunlops when the
organizers insist. I?m just not gonna buy any new ones. My Dunlops will never
wear out, they?ve aged into about the same durometer rating as rollerblade
wheels.
Honestly, at this point, how much does it matter? Too many of the real race
cars that used to make vintage races so special are collection queens and will
never be seriously driven again?certainly not among us hoi polloi at our ratty
little local events. Authentic and legal race bits for the assortment of
production cars turned into race cars that make up the usual grid often can?t
be sourced, and if they can, they?re crap. Have fun, don?t break, don?t crash.
On Mar 9, 2018, at 6:16 AM, Bill Dentinger via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
Ahhhh, That was "Tough Love", Kas.
I was a vintage racer for over thirty years, and it was my experience that
while the Vintage Sanctioning Bodies all seemed to have good intentions
maintaining 'legal' race cars, they really did not have the horse power, nor
where with-all to police such matters effectively. At one point the VSCDA came
up with an idea to get the individual Race Groups heavily involved in policing.
There were group Captains. Things improved for a while. Cheaters were
exposed. But eventually it went away. Too much bickering. The GAIN did not
exceed the PAIN. No one wanted to be Captain. The idea went away.
Bill Dentinger
-----Original Message-----
From: Kas Kastner <kaskastner at gmail.com>
To: BillDentin at aol.com <billdentin at aol.com>
Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo at gmail.com>; fot at autox. team. net <fot at
autox.team.net>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 9:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
In the 50's to early 70's days of the California Sports Car Club, if you were
caught, and many were, with parts or items that were not allowed you were given
a chance to defend yourself at the Contest Board meeting (once a month) and if
they found proof you were guilty as charged, you lost your license for a YEAR.
That's it, you did not race for a year in any class.
I ran the Rules Enforcement group and was on the Contest Board which consisted
of current drivers in several classes. It was found most of the cheating took
place from about 6th place back to about 10th place. Nothing much before that
position or after the 10th place. Some entrants never understood that other
drivers REALLY were FAST and thus they thought the leaders were the cheaters
and that just was not true at all. Interesting. No one wanted to have the name
"cheater" attached to their name. Several cars were checked each race by
lottery for cubic capacity, weight, gears ratios, body panels and other major
parts. It was pretty pure racing.
Never be beaten by equipment.
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Bill Dentinger via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
Good for SVRA. If I were the Vintage Grand Poo Pah, I would take a note of tire
cheaters on the False Grid, and then bring em in with a Meat Ball Flag after
one lap in the Feature Race.
Bill Dentinger
PS Three sets of tires needed. One for qualifying...one for the feature
race...and a special set for Tech. That latter set can be experienced, but must
have a minimum tread depth.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:08 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
The only item that SVRA regularly checks is tires from my experience. And they
do that at each gridding.
On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ricco via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
wrote:
We have not had issues with stock calipers. We run Hawk or Carbotech brake
pads and good brake fluid. We do bleed the brakes regularly and all seems to
be working good.
It would be nice to get the benefit of less unsprung weight on the front
suspension by switching to aluminum. However, I do not know of any vintage
organization that really allows it by their rules. We all know that that do
not get enforced on a regular basis. However, I do think SVRA has made a great
effort to get people to use a stock type caliper at their events.
Paul
On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
I?m still using the original brakes the car came with.
I?ve put in some nice brake pads and that is working well for me.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von DAVE HOGYE via Fot
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2018 17:28
An: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
Cc: Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
Good call, Scott. The Wilwood calipers are aluminum, but otherwise look very
similar to the the P or PB calipers.
DH
On March 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
good to check your club rules first though, if enforced. VRG says you need to
use the original equipment, and SVRA says
Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material, design and
number of pistons as the original component. There must be no increase in the
frictional surface of the pads or shoes.
On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:09 AM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
The quality of the new calipers is somewhat suspect, but seem to work as needed.
The first pair that I bought from BPNW had a yellow (anodized ?) finish with
numbers in the castings. The second pair from BPNW 4 years later have a silver
finish and no numbers in the casting which made me wonder about the quality.
My first set has been on my car from 2013. 13 race weekends a total of 3,800
miles.
Wilwood makes beautiful replacements now. They are anodized black. I far as I
can tell, they will fit our Triumphs, but haven't made a complete comparison.
Of course the price is higher, but more equivalent to the importance of good
brakes.
DH
On March 8, 2018 at 2:54 AM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
I have seen these available for a while now, but fear they are made
somewhere we don't want to know from materials I don't want to think
about. I'm not brave enough to put one of these on a street car, let
alone my race car.
Has anybody tried these calipers yet? Any feedback???
As long as good cores are available for 16P's, I'm rebuilding OEM
calipers.
Henry
On 2018-03-07 23:24, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
BTW, the PB calipers are available new for around $100 each new.
That's pretty inexpensive for such an important part. I purchased
another set when I thought I might be having a problem, but ended up
just changing pads. I'm glad to have a new pair standing by. Then I
can rebuild at my leisure.
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