----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Curry <spitlist@gte.net>
To: Richard B Gosling <Gosling_Richard_B@perkins.com>
Cc: Laura.G <Laura.G@141.com>; spitfires <spitfires@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: On MailList politics and knowing who's ones friends are...
>
>
>
> Richard B Gosling wrote:
> >
> > Joe, Laura, and all others out there,
> >
> > Having delved a little further through my bulging in-box, it would
appear (from
> > a letter sent by Joe to Paul forwarded to the list by Brad) that it was
you,
> > Joe, who has upset Laura so badly.
> >
> Yep, I confess it was me!!!!
>
> > Joe, you seem to think that Laura over-reacted to the comments you made,
and
> > that her reaction was unjustified and over the top. Possibly so, from
your
> > point of view. However, some people are more sensitive than others.
If you
> > do not know someone well, you should assume they are sensitive, and
avoid
> > making un-necessarily provocative comments, until you know them better
and
> > know that they can take it - that is common good manners. Maybe you
feel that
> > you know Laura well enough through the list that you can make these
comments -
> > if so, you have mis-judged her, as we all have seen (before this
occasion)
> > that her feelings can be hurt.
>
> Not only did she over-react, but she took a previously private
conversation to the list in an order to personally hurt me and although
> didn't specifically mention my name, made it perfectly clear who she was
referring to. (She cleverly mentioned "currying favor" twice
> in the message... very clever indeed). My personal exchange with her was
in an effort to make her realize that few list members
> actually buy that load of crap that she is peddling and that people were
snickering behind her back every time she brings it up. The
> only way she could ever hope to quell this snickering is to either prove
it (which she has indicated she will not do) or stop it all
> together.
>
> No guy on any of these lists could ever expect to get away with such
unsubstantiated claims and She will not either. Time for another
> cliché. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
>
> >
> > It was not so long ago that you managed to get quite upset when Graham
Robson
> > questioned your summary of Spitfire chassis numbers in the pages of the
Club
> > Triumph magazine - you are not so thick-skinned yourself. I detect a
level of
> > male chauvinism in your assumption that, because Laura owns, drives,
and
> > enjoys her Spitfire, that that should make her 'one of the guys', and
> > therefore able to take the level of verbal brawling that a bunch of
guys
> > sometimes indulge in away from female company. Why should a sensitive
woman
> > not be allowed to enjoy a Spitfire, and share her enthusiasm with us,
without
> > having to suppress her femininity and her own character - or indeed a
> > sensitive man, not all of us have elephant hide for skins?
>
> Sorry man, but you have that 180 degrees backwards. It was Graham that
got upset because I questioned his numbers that were quoted in
> some TSSC article. Actually, the figures were not attributed to him at
all but later it was revealed that they were his and came from
> the BMIHT archives. IN fact, the information was indeed wrong, or poorly
presented so that it was misleading. Check with Sue
> Huneybell and she will confirm this.
>
> As for Male Chauvinism, it doesn't apply here. In fact, if anything, it
is poor Laura who wants a double standard. SHe wants to throw
> out all sorts of unsubstantiated claims without being required to "put up
or shut up". The unstated rule that applies to male bravado
> says that if you say it you must be able to prove it. Laura does not want
to be bound by any such trivial rule.
>
> >
> > As an aside, I never, detected any excessive bravado or bragging from
Laura,
> > beyond obvious enthusiasm for her car. As she may not be one of the
most
> > technical amongst us, I would not expect her to have to prove herself,
or
> > Nigel, with more technical details of him than she already has. If you
have
> > been suggesting that she must race her car, which she does not want to
do, in
> > order to prove herself or her car, then I am afraid that is something
you
> > should have grown out when you were 20. However, even if there had
been any
> > unnecessary bragging, I would have hoped that you would have had the
> > sensitivity to avoid upsetting someone who most of us call a friend.
If you
> > do not count the other list members (at least those who contribute
regularly)
> > as your friends then that is sad.
>
> If you haven't noticed any bravado, you must not have been paying
attention. In the past months her engine has been said to have all
> the way from 125 HP tp well over 140 HP and the engine (starting out as a
1500) mow is almost 1600 cc, runs all day at well over 100
> mph and passes California emissions with ease. Somehow the figures don't
add up.
> >
> > I offered to support Laura in any attempt to expel those she felt had
made her
> > unwelcome in this community. That offer still stands. However, I
would be
> > very sad to see Joe go: as one of the most knowledgeable and dedicated
> > amongst us, keeper of the register, and a regular contributor, he is a
> > valuable person to have around. Much better to apologise - even if it
is just
> > for your insensitivity, and not your views - and we can all get back to
being
> > friends. Even if you feel in yourself you have done nothing wrong,
apologise
> > anyway - is it really worth that little bit of hurt pride to lose Laura
from
> > this list forever? Even if they were not intended them that way, your
> > comments clearly were hurtful - Laura would still be around if they
were not.
>
> I don't want to drive anyone off the list either but I do think that
anyone who chooses to spout "Facts and Figures" ought to know that
> if they can't (or won't) be substantiated, people will likely not believe
them. THat goes for guys and gals alike.
> >
> > Some may feel that I am getting involved in something that is not my
business,
> > that is between Laura and Joe. That is mostly true, but I am affected,
since
> > if Laura is driven from this list, then I lose a friend - that is when
it
> > becomes my business too.
>
> It started out that way, but Laura's message to the list unfortunately
brought everyone into the frey.
>
>
> Regards,
> Joe
>
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