triumphs
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RE: 61 TR3A

To: triumphs-owner@triumph.cs.utah.edu, triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: 61 TR3A
From: Mark Gendron <markge@microsoft.com>
Date: 1 Jun 95 08:45:06 -0700
The hole in front of the seat is for the jack. The TR2/3/4 jack is a
simple screw-like affair with hook which rides up and down; you stick
the screw through the hole and rest it on the ground, then rotate it
to engage the hook in a hole in a frame crossmember which passes
alongside the hole. Then you turn the screw to raise the hook and the car. 

The original radiator would have had a hole for a hand crank. This is
only important if you plan to crank it, and this car is probably
missing the crank anyway. Reproduction hand cranks (and jacks) were
available a few years ago, and probably still are. 

This car sounds like an utter basket case, and I would avoid it. I
have a very rough TR2 which has been gathering dust for many years,
which was in considerably better condition than what you are
describing (it was a driver). Projects of this magnitude can be
discouraging. If you are truly interested in owning a classic TR, I
recommend that you hold out for a rough driver, and be prepared to pay
$2000-$3000. 

In the owner's defense, I must point out that by offering the car for
$400, he has not misrepresented its condition. A TR3 for this price
is, by definition, a basket case. 

Good luck!
-mg

----------
From:   G A Oliver
Sent:   Thursday, June 01, 1995 5:07AM
To:     triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject:        61 TR3A

First, a BIG THANK YOU to all the folks that responded to my plea for help 
yesterday.  The advice was great. 

I saw the car last night and it was not as respresented, though probably what 
most of you anticipated for $400.  I would describe it as mostly complete, but 
pretty rough. 

I told the owner, Warren Bigos, a decent guy (despite his lack of candor about 
the car) that while I was not interested, I would post it here, if he wanted, 
and he was quite happy with that.  He does not have net access, so if you are 
interested please contact him by phone (609) 683-4470.  

The CAR 

It appears to be a TR3A, probably a 1961, the number on the maker's plate is 
TS74788L.  As indicated the car is pretty rough, but mostly complete, sitting 
in a single car garage, with not much air in the tires and a lot of stuff 
around it, there is not much room and not much light, though I did have a drop 
light. 

The worst problem appeared to be a fair amount of rust in the sills that 
continues into the front and rear fenders.  It looked like the front fenders 
were rusted behined the wheel, between the wheel opening and the door post, 
and the rear fenders appeared to have rust in front of the rear wheel, bubbles 
in the paint.  It was a little hard to tell, but the car appeared to have a 
little of a sway back with the seam behind the driver's door being smaller at 
the top than the bottom.  (Could the frame be rusted that badly?)  The bottom 
of the car appeared very rusty from the side, but when I looked under the 
front, the front cross member looked reasonably clean. 

The other most apparent problem is that the nose has been tapped and the grill 
is pushed in a bit and bent and the front bumper is twisted and just hanging 
on the car.  Finally, there appears to be some rust around some of the seams 
in the trunk, I was unable to get a good look inside the spare tire 
compartment. 

The interior and top are almost nonexistant, though the dash appears complete, 
the steering wheel and (I believe) hand brake are there as are the pedals and 
shift, and he has the frame for the top.  The floor did not look like it was 
rusted, though I assume there was some, but there was a round hole, about 
three inches in diameter directly in front of the driver's seat.  It did not 
look like rust, I looked like a punch out or something. 

The windshield is broken, safety glass still in the frame, the frame itself 
looks OK, but not completely attached to the car, it's kind of loose. 

The engine compartment looked OK.  I did not see any rust at the top of the 
front fenders and they appeared solid.  He said the engine doesn't turn, so I 
didn't even try.  There appears to be some type of a battery box liner glued 
into the battery box, so I assume that it is rusted underneath.  The liner was 
full of eaten acorns, so I it is/has been home to a squirrel.  One of the 
chrome headlight rings, twisted, was also in the battery box.  He also said 
the car did not have the original radiator and, therefore, no hole for the 
crank.  (Is this right?  Does a Triumph radiator have a hole for the crank to 
pass through?) 

If you're still with me, we've hit the bottom, the rest is good, or at least 
better, news.  The car is painted something like MR2 yellow and while the 
paint is cracked and chipped everywhere, there does not appear to be any rust 
outside of the areas I mentioned previously.  Are the bodies aluminum?  Most 
of the body panels appear to have small dents, etc, but no major damage with 
the possible exception of pan below the front grill. 

While most of the car is there, small things, like door handles, some of the 
letters in Triumph, etc. are missing.  The car has wire wheels, painted silver 
(I think) with chrome knock-offs.  I don't know if there is a fifth wheel for 
the spare.  There is also a second engine and a couple of buckets, boxes, etc. 
of small spare(?) parts. 

Mr. Bigos has had the car for 17 years, purchased in 1977, from a friend who 
collected/worked on Triumphs.  He has lugged it with him from move to move and 
really doesn't know much about the car or its condition.  However, I believe 
it has been stored inside for most, if not all, of that time. 

The car is in Ridgewood NJ, close to Route 17, about 8 miles south of the 
NY/NJ border.  Mr. Bigos works in Princeton and it is his work number that is 
listed above. 

Over the phone he told me he wanted $350-400 for the car.  When I was there he 
asked me if the car was restorable or whether it was only good for parts? 
I told him I thought, that while it was pretty far gone, there might be enough 
there to restore, but it might cost anybody more than it was worth.  He said 
that if he couldn't sell it, he would just junk it and the junk yard could 
part it out.  I told him that that would likely land it in the crusher, which 
he would rather not have happen (especially after 17 years of dragging it 
around).

If your interested, the car is clearly good for parts, (2) engines, drive 
train, wheels, body panels, dash, etc., but I agree with Andy Mace and would 
hate to see the car parted.  If somebody really felt up to the task and had 
the money and/or skill, I think this one could be brought back, and it is a 
very late TR3A.  Furthermore, I think Mr. Bigos needs garage space more than 
he needs $350 and I think it could be had for free, if you were willing to 
cart it out of there. 

If you go to get it, my recomendation would be a pickup truck or van (for the 
spares) with a trailer for the TR.  I don't think I'd try towing this one. 

Hope this is helpful to some one.  Please feel free to contact me if I can be 
of help.  Again, thanks for all your help! 

George Oliver 

gaoliver@joplin.att.com 



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