Chris,
I can't reach you at pacbell.net, sorry.
Your first step would be to contact Josh Sirota and ask him
what he discovered and the ideas he considered. He's
a major techie, SCCA multi-time National Champ, and
ran the SCCA timers and trailer for many years.
That would be the place to start. Talk to other regions,
and see what they use, how they use it. I know they
do this in Dallas,
The systems I did were for 286 PCs, the old database system
was a kludge, there are better database products available free
today. I'd probably write stuff myself based on the data formats
we already use. Use Web Forms, Java, and HTML interface rather
than Windows.
A proposal won't go anywhere. That's just words. We need a
working system with few bugs ready to use before we do anything
Laptops are readily available among interested members, you can use a
wire LAN until the system works. I predict the Steering Committee
won't consider giving money, and volunteers always do things
themselves -- the SC doesn't assign people to do things. You build
a system, make it work, then stay on to be the expert and make the thing
run until it's easy for anybody to do it. My take is a full time expert
will
be needed for two years minimum. It does not have to be you, of course,
but finding and committing such an individual will be a requirement
to make this happen.
By all means come to the Steering Committee meeting if you wish,
we welcome new members. If you're serious, you need to come to most
SCCA events, and volunteer to be an event co-chair, just to have a clue
what you are actually talking about.
My ideas:
My first step would be to make a database driven data entry program that
Pat Kelly could use to input the cards on at home. Let her work through
all the quirks until she has something she likes and is very fast to use.
Then think about how that could convert to a on-site data entry function.
I have actually been working with Pat to develop something like this, she
bugged me about it just yesterday! If we do nothing else, this would
be a contribution.
Second setp would be to define a scheme for online pre-registration,
tied in with the system. Let the user enter their own information.
Maybe prepay for a whole season and get a discount!
Third step would be to build an interface to the timer to capture
times as they are run. Matching time to driver will be a challenge, as
often in the trailer it is hard to figure out this match even when doing it
on paper. On the computer you'd have to type in some key like class
and number, and verify that in fact you have the right ID, there are not two
entrants with the same number, etc. This happens! Like, two weeks ago.
Fourth step would be for somebody to rationalize a system of printing,
managing, and reading barcodes, or some similar technique to
accurately tie a car on the line with a time to be output a minute later.
This part is what the barcodes would be used for -- to accurately
match times to cars. To me, this could be the worst problem we
would have -- a human step, very time critical, requiring some
computer savvy, and absolutely critical to having a successful event.
And there's no backout unless somebody is also running a paper system.
Match wrong, the event is toast. Making this work would be the hardest.
Maybe this step would never work. If this all worked, then we'd be
close to automated results.
Fifth, somebody would have to do their regular work, then handle this
process
in the trailer backing up the regular process without getting in the way.
For several months until everyone felt more confident in the
computerized data than the paper data.
Forget automated time posting. This idea will never equal manual posting.
Last Sunday I had a time written within 45 seconds after the car crossed the
line.
Posting at Divisionals and Nationals means waiting for a printout of the
whole class,
after the whole class finishes. The data is not really ready when you need
it.
Yes, you could have a sony BetaMax with a screen full of up-to-date times,
with about a $500,000 investment. Then it still may not be as good as
manual posting,
so the system would have to allow for that.
Jerry
Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps
rouler!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Warner" <jabrwoky@pacbell.net>
To: "Jerry Mouton" <jerry@moutons.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> OK,
>
> I will see what I can do. What I need from you and other members is
ideas.
> Thoughts, concerns, problems, etc.. I would like to have something to
> discuss by the 20th. Then based upon that fact finding discussion make a
> formal proposal to the region.
>
> Any assest you have available would be of tremendous help. your systems
> that you built for the little league and the soccer league could be used
to
> recduce the development time. Anything helps.
>
> Chris
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
> > [mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jerry Mouton
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:35 AM
> > To: Bay_Area_Autocross_List
> > Subject: Re: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> >
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > Well, go to it! If a team of people can demonstrate
> > a working, easy to use, fail-resistant system that
> > has significant improvements over the current system,
> > or even one with no immediate downside and some
> > visible future gain, we'd jump on it.
> >
> > I'd be amazed, since I have implemented two such systems --
> > one for AYSO soccer, one for Little League. We
> > didn't find it to be trivial, and significant investment
> > in equipment and personal time was required. These
> > systems were successful, and were used for at least the
> > several years that I was in charge of that area.
> >
> > Take over, go forward. Set up a group who already have
> > laptops, make a plan, develop the system. I'd even contribute
> > all my perl scripts for results. I would even help if a real
> > project were under development, with appreciable advantages.
> > Should be minimal up front costs for a barcode reader, just
> > to demonstrate operational characteristics. Heck, I'd contribute
> > the barcode reader to a serious group with a feasible plan.
> >
> > Give us progress reports.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons temps
> > rouler!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Warner" <jabrwoky@pacbell.net>
> > To: "Bay_Area_Autocross_List" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:02 AM
> > Subject: RE: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> >
> >
> > > A poor choice of words on my part.
> > >
> > > I am refering to peoples resistance to change. "If it ain't broke
don't
> > fix
> > > it" attitude. I see it all the time in my line of work. People get
so
> > used
> > > to a certain methodology or process, that they fail to see the
potential
> > to
> > > optimize the process.
> > >
> > > as for the web development, that's a small part of what do
> > professionally.
> > > I was not attempting to trivialize the work needed to develop a good
> > > website.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
> > > > [mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of Jerry Mouton
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:42 AM
> > > > To: Bay_Area_Autocross_List
> > > > Subject: Re: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris,
> > > >
> > > > The programs to do the web results were not technically
> > > > difficult, but they did take about 300 hours of my time
> > > > to develop over two years. Trivial, no.
> > > >
> > > > Politics didn't even come into it, I just had a better idea
> > > > and went out and did it. Nobody complained or stood
> > > > in the way, because I didn't tell them about it until I was
> > > > ready to show it. If I did tell them, they would have been
> > > > continuously bugging me to get it finished faster, and to
> > > > change it to be like they envisioned it.
> > > >
> > > > Please, tell us more about this political roadblocks that
> > > > have stood in your way...
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > > Jerry Mouton mailto:jerry@moutons.org Laissez les bons
temps
> > > > rouler!
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Chris Warner" <jabrwoky@pacbell.net>
> > > > To: "John F. Kelly Jr." <76067.1750@compuserve.com>;
> > > > "Bay_Area_Autocross_List" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>; "Mark J. Andy"
> > > > <marka@telerama.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:41 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The only challenge that prevents us geeks from implementing an
> > automated
> > > > > system is not technical, but political. Building the
> > infrastructure,
> > > > coding
> > > > > the software, and deploying the system live. It's so
> > technically easy
> > > > it's
> > > > > almost trivial. The hard part is getting people to accept it
> > > > and use it.
> > > > I
> > > > > am a programmer, not a politician. That's why us geeks
> > have failed so
> > > > far.
> > > > > We don't do politics.
> > > > >
> > > > > I bet 20 years ago people were saying it would be impossible to
> > > > report the
> > > > > results in 2 days electronically.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net
> > > > > [mailto:owner-ba-autox@autox.team.net]On Behalf Of John F. Kelly
Jr.
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:20 AM
> > > > > To: Bay_Area_Autocross_List; Mark J. Andy
> > > > > Subject: Re: Preregistration and computerized timing/scoring
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message text written by "Mark J. Andy"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Given where you guys run, I find it pretty hard to believe that
you
> > > > > wouldn't have geeks jump all over each other for the easy work
> > > > assignment
> > > > > :-)"
> > > > > -------------------- End Original Message --------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > The "geeks" have ALL thrown up their hands. That's going
> > back over 10
> > > > > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Our present "old fashioned" system does one important
> > thing. It works.
> > > > >
> > > > > --John Kelly
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