Pat,
All I'm saying is that the new classes seem to be
a lot of fun for their competitors, and the old
Mod-Prep-SP hierarchy is sort of whithering
on the vine here, in terms of absoulte numbers.
National wanted to bring in classes that were more
fun and inline with what people want. Seems to be
working.
John argued that the classes grew because
of people escaping faster drivers in the old classes --
you don't run to classes averaging 12 entrants if you
are that interested in trophies!
Nobody wants too many classes, but maybe the
new Street classes are not the ones that should be
pared off!
Maybe there's more to Solo2 than a
cheap stepping stone to SCCA
racing, as that's kind of what the old categories
imply.
Or not!
Jerry
Jerry Mouton "Laissez les bons temps rouler!"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Kelly" <lollipop487@attbi.com>
To: "Jerry Mouton" <jerry@moutons.org>; "bay_area_autocross_list"
<ba-autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Round 6 results are posted
> I'm sorry your post was to the whole group...its vehemence (sp?) was
> surprising.
> Avoiding faster drivers wasn't my point (it might have been John's),
but
> I did finish with saying it is a generational (era) deal; new classes are
> built to attract new generations of drivers/cars. I finished by saying
that
> I'll bet in 10 years or so, another set of classes will be added to
> accommodate the new drivers who don't want to build their cars for the
> already existing classes. Ergo, a new class for ME! Basically everyone
wants
> to run without doing more to their own car than what they've already done,
> and don't respond to the challenge of really getting out the rulebook to
see
> what they CAN do.
> For most the sport is too casual to get that serious. :)
> OTH, we did see a 'no holds barred' car show up in DM this last
weekend.
> The guy hasn't read the rulebook, for sure, with that wing. It's an AMod
> car, not DMod. There are some who do like to build a car from scratch...or
> modify their car far beyond what the manufacturer ever thought of.
> None of my remarks were meant as slams on the new folks, they were
> observations after watching the sport develop and change over the past 40
> years. I hate to admit to that autocross life span. :(
> --Pat Kelly
>
> ----------
> >From: "Jerry Mouton" <jerry@moutons.org>
> >To: "Pat Kelly" <lollipop487@attbi.com>, "Bay_Area_Autocross_List"
> <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> >Subject: Re: Round 6 results are posted
> >Date: Tue, Dec 10, 2002, 11:14 AM
> >
>
> > Gee, Pat,
> >
> > I don't see it. I don't see any people who moved to
> > Street classes to avoid faster drivers. Vic and Durk
> > for two don't take second place to anybody driving, or Charlie
> > Davis, among trophy winners (don't mean to slight anybody
> > I didn't mention -- I just don't remember everybody).
> > Or Katie, or Reitmeir, or Richardson, or Don Ebaugh,
> > Corey, or Navid, or Jim Ochi, ... Moving to avoid faster drivers
> > didn't seem to work too good, huh? ; -)
> >
> > True or not, people see Modified as not for "cars like this",
> > street cars with popular mods; it's for gonzo no-holds-barred
> > aluminum formula cars or specials. That's why you didn't see
> > all these SM or even OSP cars moving from Mod. Almost
> > nobody runs Mod.
> >
> > These folks moved from Stock or SP to SM (for example)
> > because they could make mods they wanted to their cars.
> >
> > I think if "grasshopper thinking" had not prevailed and there
> > were no "Street" classes, you would not be seeing growth
> > in the Mod classes. There sure wasn't any before these
> > classes were introduced. Rather, there has been continual
> > decrease in SFR Mod, as far as I can see.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Jerry Mouton "Laissez les bons temps
rouler!"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pat Kelly" <lollipop487@attbi.com>
> > To: "Ian Green" <iagreen@ucdavis.edu>; "Bay_Area_Autocross_List"
> > <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Round 6 results are posted
> >
> >
> >> From my point of view, grasshopper (age does have its
priviledges!),
> >> John is correct, and I agree he said it too bluntly.
> >> The real question is, would these folks have run if there were none
of
> >> these new classes? Probably the answer is no...because:
> >> 1. They'd have to put their classes back to stock or
> >> 2. They'd be uncompetitive with SP because they don't want to go that
far
> >> (I'm referring to STS)
> >> However, SM and SM2 allow more than SP, and many of those cars
could
> > run
> >> in a Modified class. :) In fact, they allow more than Prepared in some
> > ways.
> >> As these new classes develop (it'll take about 10 years), another
> > layer
> >> of classes will be proposed and accepted because there will be a
perceived
> >> need to "fit the era," just as the STS, SM2, SM, and STX have fit for
this
> >> era, and just as SP was developed about 20 years ago on top of the then
> >> existing Stock, Prepared, and Modified classes.
> >> Maybe it all revolves around "I want a class for ME!" :)
> >> Whether new classes 'good' or 'bad,' I don't think anyone can say.
But
> >> their development certainly keeps the sport, my favorite, alive. And
> > that's
> >> a good thing. :)
> >> --Pat Kelly
> >>
> >> ----------
> >> >From: "Ian Green" <iagreen@ucdavis.edu>
> >> >To: "Bay_Area_Autocross_List" <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> >> >Subject: RE: Round 6 results are posted
> >> >Date: Tue, Dec 10, 2002, 10:14 AM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >> -------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------
> >> >>
> >> >> Message text written by "Jerry Mouton"
> >> >>
> >> >> "
> >> >> Interesting, the new Street Touring S & X, and Street Modified /SM2
> >> >> have been really successful in Slush. Average entrants
> >> >> were greater than any Stock Class, or Mod Class.
> >> >> I guess National was onto something, huh?
> >> >>
> >> >> Jerry Mouton "
> >> >> -------------------- End Original Message --------------------
> >> >> Jerry,
> >> >> Yes and No.
> >> >> There's often a forgotten reason why a different class
> > succeeds.
> >> >> One key reason is that it's a method of avoiding the
experienced--and
> >> >> faster--drivers in an existing class.
> >> >> Just check how many drivers in the noted classes are not new
to
> >> > the
> >> >> scene and who previously competed in an existing class.
> >> >>
> >> >> --John Kelly
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Thats pretty harsh. Don't let too many of the STS guys hear you say
> > that.
> >> > Their usually are several STS cars in the top PAX so I don't know if
its
> >> > all that easy.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Ian Green
> >> > 2003 Team Coleader
> >> > UC Davis Formula SAE
> >> > http://mae.ucdavis.edu/~fsae
> >> > 97 Honda Civic CX
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/stscxr
> >> >
> >> > "I never let school get in the way
> >> > of my education." - Mark Twain
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